Should we copy Arizona’s defense against USC and UW?

This topic has 19 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by Jim Vanderhoof.

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- 10/07/2023 at 11:14 PM #199579
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  22Ute22
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  Arizona has 7 DB’s on the field against USC and did the same against UW I’m pretty sure. They had 3 DL and 1LB for pass rush. Imo we should do something similar.
  
  4 DL, 1 LB (best pass covering LB, probably Reid), and 6 DB’s. Bishop and Tao Johnson as safeties for pass defense. Vaughn, Broughton, and Battle as CB’s on the field. Vaki as the NB and then rotate Reid and Barton. The game plan against those teams has to be to force them to beat you on the ground, which would also have the added benefits of slowing the game down and limiting possessions.
- 10/07/2023 at 11:21 PM #199580
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  2008 National Champ
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  Utah’s defense is just fine. They will run some dime when necessary but the D isn’t the issue. If the offense can’t give them any help, it won’t matter.
  - 10/07/2023 at 11:27 PM #199582
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    Charlie
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    Yes
  - 10/07/2023 at 11:44 PM #199586
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    22Ute22
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    I didn’t say that our D wasn’t good. I’m just saying that Arizona is clearly doing something that works. We’d be kinda foolish to not copy their game plan. If they limited UW and USC with their defensive game plan, imagine what Utah could do with a similar game plan, but with better players? Additionally, I see this fanbase constantly, and rightfully, complaining about the CB play. So you want to run the same game plan against two teams with 3 elite WR’s? Our CB’s will get cooked by UW and USC’s WR’s if we run the same game plan.
    - 10/07/2023 at 11:57 PM #199592
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      2008 National Champ
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      Utah is tied for 5th in the country in scoring defense and is 13th in yards allowed per. Don’t fix what ain’t broke.
      
      Now if you want to recreate the wheel on offense, there’s plenty of Utah fans who will applaud any suggestions you might have.
      - 10/08/2023 at 1:28 AM #199608
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        22Ute22
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        It’s not fixing something that’s broken. It’s called adapting to your opponents scheme and formation. Do you say “don’t fix what ain’t broken” when the team subs different players based on their offenses formation? No, you’re simply adapting to the circumstance to match personnel. This is the same thing but on a more “macro” scale. Of course we can talk about fixing the offense, but the offense only has 1 fix and that’s Cam Rising. 2 weeks isn’t enough for NJ to go from 4th string to superstar, especially since we don’t even have a damn QB coach. Maybe Rose can help, but I doubt it.
        
        10/08/2023 at 7:48 AM #199614
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        2008 National Champ
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        In the 2nd half against UCLA, Utah routinely dropped 7 and rushed only 4. They were able to do that because the D Line was regularly getting home and they had already taken UCLA’s run game away. Utah was able to do this using their base nickel defense. In your scenario, they should pull LB’s who are getting the job done and replace them with unproven CB’s or safeties so they can run the exact same defense.
        
        You beat Williams by keeping him in the pocket and limiting his opportunities to improvise while not getting gashed by their counter run game. We saw that Utah is capable of doing that in the CCG. When you allow him to run around for 7-10 seconds, no Corner can maintain coverage that long.
        
        You beat Penix by taking away the early deep ball and making him move. He’s going to throw to a spot and expect his receiver to make the play. Force him to check down and don’t allow YAC.
        
        Utah is perfectly capable of holding either to less than Arizona gave up in regulation (31 and 28) with their current scheme. Arizona does not have all-conference LB’s so they changed up their personnel. But the coverages they ran from that personnel is nothing that Utah doesn’t already run. Be careful of falling into the trap of believing what the talking heads tell you. They are kings of hearing something in their pre-game prep and then repeating it ad nauseum. It’s tough to ad lib for 3+ hours while trying to make everything positive so that people keep watching.
        
        10/08/2023 at 8:30 AM #199636
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        alUmnUs
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        Arizona didn’t even do what he said they did regularly. “Live life to it’s fullest” boy Brock Osweiller mentioned he saw it happening, so this is what is being grasped onto. Arizona didn’t play “7 DBs.” Schematically, they looked very much like Utah last night. I’d say the main difference I saw is that Arizona dialed up most of their pressure out of their sets with delayed interior blitzes, lots of stunts, and twists. Utah’s pressure typically includes a bit more complexity and risk coming off the edges with OLBs or disgused safeties.
        
        10/08/2023 at 9:13 PM #199760
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        Charlie
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        Actually, I get your point. Utah’s defense includes nickel and dime. The dime gives you 6 DBs. The Utah defense also includes a spy option. I think we have LBs and safeties that can play that roll well. I like rotating the spy to give Williams something to process post snap and I am happy to see it come and go but always be there when they are behind the chains. I think the spy is more useful than the 7th DB. If you take away Williams broken pass play scrambles away, I think the defense will handle everything else in the USC offense.
- 10/08/2023 at 12:19 AM #199600
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  alUmnUs
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  It’s already similar to Utah’s schemes. That said, I still have nightmares of sitting in the Coliseum watching Utah go press-man against SCs receivers.
  
  But also remember, it’s Utah that Jedd Fisch has been using as a template to build his program.
  - 10/08/2023 at 12:59 AM #199606
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    22Ute22
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    Nah, Utah at most has 5 DB’s on the field and will go with 4 DB’s and 3 LB’s depending on their opponents formation and scheme. Imo 5 isn’t enough against UW and USC. What is the point in not running an extra DB in place of a LB against two teams that are elite passing teams, but meh running teams.
    - 10/08/2023 at 2:34 AM #199609
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      alUmnUs
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      Arizona wasn’t in 3 down all night. They kept 6 in the box a lot with 4 down DL and 2 MLBs (which is the same base look Utah goes to against USC in trips) and press-man out of most of their schemes. Last year when SC would go no-backs, Utah often lined up with 3 down, press-man on 5 with 2 safeties over the top.
- 10/08/2023 at 2:47 AM #199610
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  EagleMountainUte
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  Notre Dame is going to chew on SC pretty roughly before Utah gets them.
  Good golly I hope the offense is figured out by then.
- 10/08/2023 at 8:04 AM #199621
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  ProudUte
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  I think you ask a valid question. But, I do not believe it is Whitt or Scalley’s style to make wholesale changes like that. They both seem to me to play hard-core, old-school football and win in the trenches. They may do some things similar to Arizona in obvious passing downs.
  
  I admit, I like what I saw with Arizona’s defense. They made the Heisman leader look like a guy who started his first football game. USC was very lucky to come out with a win last night.
  - 10/08/2023 at 10:16 AM #199665
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    EagleMountainUte
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    I think Bishop or Barton handles spy and we go with a four man rush. If Utah is able to flush Williams you have to go wrap him up. Not HIT him. Wrap up.
- 10/08/2023 at 8:27 AM #199634
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  Tony (admin)
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  The way we abused Williams in the Pac-12 championship game worked for me.
  - 10/08/2023 at 8:45 AM #199642
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    alUmnUs
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    It looked like Jedd Fisch thought, “hmm, how did Utah beat Linceb O’Williams twice last year?”
    - 10/08/2023 at 9:21 AM #199646
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      2008 National Champ
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      I’m going to need you to stop posting on this thread. Your recognition of the quality of Utah’s defense is not appreciated when it is obvious that wholesale changes MUST BE MADE NOW!
      - 10/08/2023 at 9:53 AM #199656
        
        alUmnUs
        Participant
        
        I guess I shouldn’t assume that after a generation of KW football everyone just knows Utah’s DNA is man-coverage footba….oh look a squirrel!
  - 10/09/2023 at 9:45 AM #199783
    
    Jim Vanderhoof
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    I agree Tony. First game against usc last year was a disaster. They spread the field and made us tackle in space. Plus we had an aggressive pass rush which lacked containment and Williams got out of the pocket.
    
    CCG we contained him on the edges and pressured up the middle. Made him stay in the pocket and throw. We were more prepared for the quick swing pass and didnt allow the running backs a ten yard head start.
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