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Utah Sign ‘stealing’
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- This topic has 14 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by
UTE98.
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RedRocksParticipantCan someone explain to me why this Michigan sign stealing ‘investigation’ is even a thing?
From what I understand, Connor Stallions (the Michigan ‘thief’) was simply gathering ‘publicly available’ information. He didn’t sneak into unauthorized areas. He didn’t steal playbooks.
He watched, recorded, and analyzed information that was available to everyone in attendance.
If you don’t want someone to know certain pieces of information, don’t show it to the world. Shouldn’t it be understood that people will always try to figure out which plays you will run, forcing you to plan accordingly?
I am not saying what he did was ‘fair’. I am just confused as to why this is such a big deal with potential punishments. It seems more like a case of someone outworking/outsmarting everyone else to gain an advantage, which is kind of the point of a ‘competition’.
It is not ‘fair’ that Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, and USC get all the best recruits every year. It is not fair that Sione Vaki can squat a million pounds and I can’t.
(Sorry to those who already responded. Looks like I was too slow with my edit. 🙂)
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NarfUteParticipantA staffer attending a future opponents game and recording their sideline is against NCAA rules, which is the issue. Teams can sign steal all they want as long as they do it ‘legally’
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RedRocksParticipant
Yeah, that makes sense I guess. A rule is a rule.
So, had he attended the games but not recorded, would that have been okay?
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PlainsUteParticipantNo, because “in person” scouting was banned. This was news to me, apparently that was done to save schools money. They have a film sharing system instead.
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PebbleStar
ParticipantI think it was put in place because schools with lower athletic budgets would be at a bigger disadvantage with in-person scouting.
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2008 National ChampParticipantAnd yet Alabama is allowed to have 20 former head coaches acting as analysts in the Nick Saban coaching rehab program.
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Tony (admin)KeymasterDoesn’t seem much different than studying film and knowing that your opponent runs left 89% of the time from a specific formation.
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DataUteParticipantElectronic recording to match plays with signs ahead of time is a no-no. Knowing if it’s a run or pass even gives the D a huge advantage. As Whitt says though, you’re stupid if it’s stolen. You have to change it up or make it complex enough (for the day/game). The curtain thing some teams do is stupid. Or weird signs. Or three players signing. But they’re all attempts to confuse or slow-down sign stealing and tipping the defense off. I wish they just went to audio or AT&T commercial helmet for the blind, but probably too expensive for all programs.
Not all that different from the Astros – electronic means. Guy on 2nd base tipping off the batter? Fair play. Transmitting stuff and signaling electronically? Too far.
Now, supposedly this dude also snuck onto the CMU sideline against Mich St. in CMU team issued gear so he had a view of MSU signs for later down the road. That’s next level. Also, buying tickets for buddies and paying them to record the signs (with a good view) is more than just watching and taking notes or watching game film for tendencies.
What I find somewhat hilarious in the B1G soap opera is that there are reports Ryan Day’s brothers were the ones that investigated and tipped off the NCAA/press. And, Michigan is spinning it that they got the spreadsheet illegally. Of course, Day has lost twice to UM and a 3rd will get him fired, so of course he is going to tip off any impropriety … reminds me of some SEC recruiting tip-offs (Alabama, Tennessee, Kiffin, …)
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RedRocksParticipant
Sneaking onto the CMU sideline certainly seems more egregious. I still don’t think having other people attend games for you is a big deal, but I suppose I understand the recording aspect being a problem (again, a rule is a rule).
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UtahParticipantWhat’s so stupid about all this is that there is an easy fix:
Let the QB’s have dots in their helmets and let the OC talk to the QB. Hell, it would help Utah out a lot, especially with Barnes. You can have Barnes line up, have Ludwig do the presnap read for him, tell him “Hey Vele has single coverage, he should be your first read” so Barnes knows how to switch things up.
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DataUteParticipant
yeah – agree. I think this could probably work at least at the P5 level. Maybe the super conferences will implement it. Cost and technology make it a little harder, but NFL style could work (even cut it off at X seconds left in the play clock). Then Michigan would screw with the other team’s frequencies at home ;).
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2008 National ChampParticipant
They do it in the NFL but there are limitations. Something like 15 seconds or so left on the play clock and the radios shut-off.
To be honest, having someone talking in my ear while I was trying to call a cadence or do my own reads would drive me nuckin’ futz. There is such a thing as paralysis by analysis.
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Ute1990
ParticipantWon’t teams be able to use AI to write a script to scan social media and get a complete recording of any game soon anyway?
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2008 National ChampParticipant
The issue wasn’t/isn’t the game film. The “scout” would train their phone camera at the people sending in signals. They would then match that up with the all-22 version(s) that are exchanged between the schools as well as the televised version(s) to decipher the play calls. The exchanged versions don’t allow you to see signals and only rarely do you see the live versions trained on the signal guys.
Formation you can’t do anything about. But if you can match that up with tendency and know pass/run, you’ve got a pretty good chance of having your players right where you need them to make the play.
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UTE98ParticipantStealing football signs is definitely more complex, but with AI/Machine learning, not that much more difficult.
I thought of this video.
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