DailyTrojan article wondering if it’s too late to turn back
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- This topic has 25 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by The Miami Ute.
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NashvilleUteParticipant
This is hilarious (for USC) and a little heartbreaking for the rest of us who are still mourning loosing the PAC12. I hope USC and UCLA never qualify for the playoffs in the Big Ten. I’ll be cheering for Oregon and Washington in the Big Ten though. I don’t fault them for leaving when they did, we all knew the PAC12 was done by that point. We would have done the same if we had the opportunity. But I hope Big Ten life is terrible for USC and UCLA. Forever.
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SteelUteParticipant
USC keeps trying to fix things in a year. No patience for the long term approach of establishing a culture of toughness, team first mentality, and grit. Th ey think a new hire will fix their defense in an off season. I look forward to them getting humbled in the big ten.
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2008 National ChampParticipant
to be fair, it’s not like SC is missing talent on defense. The right coach could turn that around in a hurry, assuming the kids buy in.
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lgt4141Participant
Ever since they announced they were moving to the Big Ten, I have thought that USC and UCLA fans will have buyers remorse in a few years when they aren’t winning or making the CFP. I also think that Oklahoma and Texas fans will feel the same way in the SEC.
They will all make more money but will it be worth it?
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Central Coast UteParticipant
It’s funny that USC fans are finally coming to this realization. It’s funny how they were so excited to leave and make more money, although the fans won’t see a dime. They also thought they would just show and win conference titles although they have struggled to do so in the PAC. As the article says, two of the PAC teams that have been giving them the most trouble are going with them. They’re no longer the big fish, that falls to MI and OSU. They will be miserable.
UCLA’s troubles won’t get fixed by joining the BIG either, especially since they have to pay Calimony. The only way to fix it is to change their spending habits.
I agree, I have no ill will with UW and UO. Since it won’t be the Utes winning the final PAC title, i’m glad it won’t be one of the LA schools.
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UtahParticipant
This is what I’ve never understood. Sure, more money is nice, but USC goes from clear top dog to 4th best…at best.
Same with Utah. We go to the B1G with USC, UCLA, UW, Oregon. We’d be the eighth best recruiting team…at best.
I like the smaller regional conferences. The money is overrated.
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J RocksvilleParticipant
I don’t even know that I’d say they are the clear top dog in the pac 12 anymore. I haven’t looked, but in the last 15 or so years, are they even in the top 3?
I get it, they are a blue blood with a lengthy iconic history and are in LA. But other than the Pete Carroll years and maybe one year with Helton, they haven’t done all that much to separate themselves in the last 20 years. If anything, they’ve done less with more talent than anyone else in the country.
The USC of the past 15 years is going to be middle of the pack in the B1G and thankfully USC fans are starting to see that. Maybe top half..woo woo. Oregon and Washington should be competitive unless their coaches get poached or something else happens.
I also 100% agree with the smaller regional conferences. I think a lot of people see two big conferences separating in the next 5 years or so, and if that’s the case I think it makes sense for everyone…the schools, the fans, the players, the networks…to put teams back in regional pods to restore some of those rivalries and keep travel down. Some in some ways the only way to get smaller is to first get bigger.
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Central Coast UteParticipant
On the field they’re not the top dog. That’s for sure. But in the meeting room, make no mistake, everyone was trying to make them happy.
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RedbloodParticipant
So how would you be feeling if we had got into the BIG? And would BYU be posting this kind of thing laughing about how we won’t ever see the playoffs? It’s a serious question because if we had gotten the invite we would have had to accept it because of the money and it would have been the biggest thing to ever happen to our program but we would also have been way less likely to make the playoffs in the new 12 team Format. Both would be true for us and are true for USC.
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Miles E.Participant
They’ll be fine. There’s a lot of bad teams in the Big 10.
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The Miami UteParticipant
All I’m going to say is that I prefer winning to the university making money but losing constantly. If that means a return to the Mountain West, that’s what it means. As Central Coast so wisely alluded to, no fan is ever going to see a cent of that extra money but they sure as heck will see all of the losses.
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lgt4141Participant
I have a coworker who is Nebraska fan and has said to me more than once that he misses the Big 8 but they make more money. I agree with @Miami that fans and I think coaches and players too would rather win than be in the conference with the biggest payout.
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CharlieParticipant
I wonder if the Pac schools going to the B1G will do any better than Nebraska? Going in I would have to say Nebraska had a better history of winning consistently then the Pac schools. UCLA will likely disappear quickly, the other three will be in and out of the rankings, occasionally have a surprise win, but may likely have a ceiling in the second quartile of the B1G. In the future playoff picture, Pac teams in the Big 12, even the MWC champ, may have a better chance of getting into the playoffs. Could 2 super conferences only produce two conference champs compared to 5 happy champs that were once produced by the P5? I would be shocked if an old Pac school wins the B1G anytime soon. I will be shocked if an old Pac school does not win the Big 12 most years. If so, this could drive some fan bases nuts.
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Central Coast UteParticipant
There will be 2 conferences with divisions just like the NFL. There will be division Champs, but I doubt it will mean as much as conference champs do now
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The Miami UteParticipant
I’ve always used Nebraska as a cautionary tale that not all change is progress. Nebraska, when I was growing up in the 70s through early this century, was always in the mix for the national championship. As it is, its football history makes Oregon and Washington combined look like a couple of expansion teams. They’ve fallen off the face of the college football map since they became part of the B1G. It wouldn’t surprise me if something similar didn’t happen to all of the PAC teams going there. Wonder how long their fans take that before they start voting with their feet.
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2008 National ChampParticipant
The curse of Bo Pelini. Nebraska fans and their AD decided that winning at least 9 games each of the 7 years he was head coach wasn’t good enough. They are now on their 3rd head coach since 2015 and have one winning season in that time with a chance at their 2nd this year.
From 1969 through 2001 Nebraska only lost more than 3 games once (Solich’s first season in 1998) and finished outside the top 15 twice, 24th in 1990 and 19th in 1998. That is a run that is unmatched in history.
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The Miami UteParticipant
During the time frame that you mention, Nebraska won FIVE national championships and played for an amazing eight other. What I mean by that is that they would have had the possibility of winning a national championship if they would have won their bowl game. It’s just shocking how such a prestigious team with amazing facilities, rabid fans, good recruiting has stepped into an elevator shaft.
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2008 National ChampParticipant
Changing coaches, changes to roster limits and changing conferences all combined to take them down.
But the biggest issue is that Nebraska was caught up in the “it will always be great because it always has been” mindset. It’s almost like how wealthy families lose most, if not all of it, in 2 generations. Or the “born on third base and thought you hit a triple”. Osborne worked his tail off building everything at Nebraska and everyone around him just saw the results and decided that anyone can do it.
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UTE98Participant
I think it all started when they fired Frank Solich for a 9-3 season in 2003.
Changing coaches/conferences isn’t always the best solution.
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2008 National ChampParticipant
Agree and that is why I’ve never been on the fire Whitt bandwagon. Not only has he earned the right to throw up 8-4 seasons in perpetuity, but it is more likely than not that within 3 seasons after he leaves, Utah will be struggling and looking for it’s next next head coach.
When a coach has been in place as long as Whitt has, it’s pretty rare that the next guy is able to meet or exceed the same standard. Hopefully Scalley is one of the exceptions.
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22Ute22Participant
You shouldn’t. Nebraska is a very unique case. They had so many things go right for them during their glory days, and when all those things went away, they naturally worsened as a program.
1) Nebraska was basically the first football program to do strength and conditioning the right way. All of modern CFB’s strength and conditioning has its foundation in Nebraska. They were massively ahead of every other CFB program at the time. Nowadays, every single team has the right information. No more advantage.
2) PED’s. Some Nebraska fans vehemently deny it for some reason, but Nebraska was absolutely using PED’s on a large scale. It wasn’t just individuals that did it and the coaches turned a blind eye. They actively incorporated it into their regimen. Obviously you can’t do that anymore. Advantage gone.
3) Nebraska high schools from the 80’s-90’s basically ALL ran Nebraska’s triple option offense. So these kids that have been playing in Nebraska’s offense their whole lives, naturally were able to pick it up easily once they got into college. Of course, very few high schools teams nowadays run the triple option, and neither does Nebraska. Advantage gone.
4) Nebraska abused player counts. They had something that people call “county scholarships”. Essentially, their Walkons were actually better than normal walkons, and they were getting their school paid for by boosters. There isn’t as much proof for this as the PED claim, but I do think it’s true. They also had something called partial qualifiers, which is just being able to take in athletes that don’t qualify academically. Apparently the longhorns used their power to get rid of this advantage when the big 12 formed long ago. Yet another few advantages gone.
Some other things that just naturally happen, is that other teams got better and were able to give playing time. For example, legendary coach Bill Snyder built Kansas State into a quality program, and they were able to steal sole recruits from Nebraska. Their move from the Big 12 to the B1G also dramatically reduced their Texas recruiting pipeline, and they didn’t replace it with anything. Although, I do think an elite coach would be able to bring it back, and that brings us the the last point. They have had some very bad hires since firing Bo Pelini. So Nebraska didn’t really get dramatically worse because they moved to the B1G. That was only a small part, that can probably be fixed with a home run hire. Their advantages, some which were legit, and others which were cheating, went away and the rest of the CFB world caught up to them.
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The Miami UteParticipant
I don’t discount anything that you mention above. My only quibble is that Nebraska was not the only team that was doing some of the things you mention above. You can bet that teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Miami, USC, etc… all did shady stuff because in the days before the internet, 24 hour news cycle, and social media you could get away with it.
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UtahParticipant
Totally agree. Like I’ve said 1,000 times, what’s the worst that happens?
The Big 10 and SEC break off and form a minor league.
Utah goes back to the MWC or PAC or stays in the Big12 and instead of 30 million a year makes 10.
Utah wins a lot of games, I root for them, we have bowl games or a playoff or something. My reality doesn’t change at all. Maybe Whitt makes less money. I don’t care. Maybe the players don’t have catered meals 24 hours a day. I don’t care. Maybe their locker room isn’t updated every 2 years. I don’t care. Maybe their weights have some scuffs on them. I don’t care.
Utah has built itself up in a way that they will be successful no matter what happens. North Dakota fans still enjoy their team. And I will still enjoy Utah.
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The Miami UteParticipant
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Maybe if that happens season tickets at RES will come back to reasonable rates.
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Tony (admin)Keymaster
Don’t bank on it.
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HahnenwkParticipant
I agree with most everything people have said here. Remember the big villains are the TV networks and cables they caused the movement and ruin.
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