Bowl Game Perspective

This topic has 17 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 10 months, 3 weeks ago by stbone.

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- 12/31/2023 at 10:14 AM #209040
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  TX_UTE
  Participant
  
  Thought someone had already commented on this, but in the other two bowl games (Cotton and Orange) where teams started 3rd string QBs and had key opt outs the losing teams were outscored 77-6! Gives me a little perspective about the 14-7 loss to NW…
  and as always, Go Utes!
- 12/31/2023 at 10:27 AM #209042
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  The Miami Ute
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  Yeah but keep in mind that Utah wasn’t playing Missouri or Georgia. Both of those are Top 10 teams whereas Northwestern had to move mountains just to get bowl eligible at the end of the season. I’m glad Utah didn’t play either of those teams because the results would not have been entertaining.
- 12/31/2023 at 10:40 AM #209043
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  Charlie
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  It is very hard to be forced to play multiple QBs. To bring another QB into a game the other team is not prepared for is an anomaly. Even Barnes looked serviceable in two Rose Bowls for that reason. However, that can change quickly with teams having a week to prepare for him. Next, we sometimes see a team change QBs, like Arizona did this year, and think it is easy. The exception that makes this possible is when two QBs are very even and have been fighting with each other to start. Most times there is a drop-off in talent in addition to the change. Note that in the two other bowl games the backup QBs are of a very high level of talent. You can look and look and look for an example of a team that went thru 3 QBs in a season but made it work – and not find one. Try looking for a team that got to QB5 and had something working. If Florida State and Ohio State had to play again next week, their lack of a seasoned QB would make everyone else on the offense look incapable. Keep their RB1 limping and their OL would turn to trash. Teams get new QBs ready to go all the time, it just requires an offseason to do it well.
- 12/31/2023 at 11:27 AM #209045
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  PhillyUte
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  There is no sugarcoating how bad that loss to northwestern was. Their concussed QB was able to throw a dime and beat a corner who has played all year. Take a look at a team like Georgia who had “nothing to play for” and see how many opt outs they had for their bowl. Not much and I’d wager the youth on their team is equivalent to ours. Must be nice not having to rely on recruiting diamonds in the rough.
- 12/31/2023 at 12:51 PM #209049
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  Utah
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  Oregon State got their asses kicked as well with a third string QB.
  
  What Ludwig did with the QB talent he had was remarkable.
  - 12/31/2023 at 5:44 PM #209063
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    2008 National Champ
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    Top 5 coordinator in pay managed a top 100 offense (barely) with players that had been recruited for his offense over the last 5 years he has been running the offense and that he is responsible for making sure can run his offense at it’s peak performance.
    
    I’d venture a guess that a lot of people who commanded a lot less money could not have done any worse with the pieces available in 2023
    - 12/31/2023 at 6:35 PM #209066
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      Utah
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      I love you man, but after the games this weekend. After seeing Oklahoma, Ohio St, FSU, Oregon State, etc lose much like we did with their backups…
      
      Your take is about the dumbest f**king s**t I’ve read today.
      
      And I’m an eagles fan who just got stomped by Arizona. I’ve read some dumb s**t today.
    - 12/31/2023 at 7:09 PM #209072
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      Charlie
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      I’d more then venture that very few coordinators could dip to 2 walk-on QBs, lose a dozen key players and win 8 games in a power conference. Maybe some examples of those that did as well with the injuries we had in 2023 could help us understand this point.
      - 01/01/2024 at 7:18 AM #209087
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        2008 National Champ
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        I don’t accept as fact that the 2023 Utah offense was the best version anyone could have expected. I also don’t accept as fact that the only person capable of leading the Utah offense to that perceived best possible result was Andy Ludwig, thus he should be rewarded financially.
        
        At some point if feels like if Ludwig got drunk and drove his car into a tree there would be people blaming the car for going where he pointed it, the alcohol for getting into his bloodstream or even the tree for not moving out of his path. In other words, the person making the decisions is absolved of the responsibility for the result of the decisions. It’s downright Faucian.
        
        01/01/2024 at 10:57 AM #209098
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        Charlie
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        Can I assume you have experience doing these things you are analyzing? Myself, I watched a lot of football for decades and got comfortable with evaluating good and weak coaching. Then because my son coached at the HS I got involved with coaching the 8th graders and involved at the HS. The perspective of watching FB prepares you little for making FB actually happen. Much like an aboriginal man in the desert can watch a jet fly overhead every day and develop an explanation, understanding from the inside can be very different.
        
        I learned not having the QB you planned to have is quite a challenge. A change of QB can have many more ripples than expected. You can build around a QB in the weeks before a season but that is so very difficult to accomplish during the season between games. Offense or defense, teams at all levels I believe depend heavily on a few key individuals. But the QB and the center were different. I drove the other coaches nuts insisting on playing the backups at these two spots when the game was in hand. It was because I saw the impact when they became unavailable. There is also an exponential compounding effect as you begin to miss multiple key players.
        
        The coaches are not perfect and I already know they can talk all day long about what did not work or what they wished they would have done. You may feel they must be drunk but they do their work in front of thousands (some actually drunk) that with a handful of peanuts and a second to think analyze the complexities of FB. At least their crowd is not half not-so-objective parents and family. I would venture a guess that the folks that are very good at coaching FB are likely the ones making the big bucks in FB. And I can assure you and all my fellow Americans, our coaches are nothing like Tony.
- 01/01/2024 at 11:52 AM #209101
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  Jim Vanderhoof
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  I don’t give Ludwig a pass. Part of his job is to develop the QB room. Rising could have been done after last year. What would have been any different? Rose Barnes Johnson competing for starting job. Whitt stating Rose didn’t have a grasp of the offense before the Vegas bowl is puzzling.
  
  With Rose not grasping the offense that left Barnes as the starter going in to the season. After 12 games with Barnes as starter or backup comparing him to a freshman 3rd team backup (OSU FSU) is ridiculous. Ludwig scheme is flawed unless you have a running QB to pick up first downs. Tight end to catch 7-10 yrd routes. Lack of passing game for WR is something that needs to be addressed.
  - 01/02/2024 at 7:19 AM #209148
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    The Miami Ute
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    Jim, I also found that comment by Whitt kind of problematic. How could a guy that’s two full years into the program not have a grasp of the offense? Is it that difficult or just another example of coach speak?
    - 01/02/2024 at 10:08 AM #209155
      
      Charlie
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      It is an odd comment. There is a reason teams carry so many QBs. One has the assignment as the scout team QB to get the defense ready. In that roll they suspend learning our offense and try to mimic other teams. I think when he came back from injury he went into that roll being someone not planed to play this year. I will guess again, when bowl prep began they still needed a scout team QB and Rose had missed all the adjustments the offense has been going thru since fall. May not been able to keep Barnes engaged for those weeks on the scout team. NJ and Mack had vanished. Possibly coaches thought Barnes presented the best chance to win and the reason was he was most current on the offense.
      
      I would have taken the chance and played Rose, who NW would not have been prepared for which would have negated his lack of experience or whatever. It would also be a better investment for ’24. But Whitt likes to win games and the score indicates that was quite possible. Other factors may have tipped the decision but Whitt may have simply provided one of the reasons without more discussion. But honestly, I expect if I was to talk to the coaches I think they would give me more to the issue than I can see from my seat with a hand full of peanuts.
      - 01/02/2024 at 10:34 AM #209163
        
        Trailgoat
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        Agree Charlie. Way more to this than us fans need to know. Seems clear there was no plan to play Rose in the bowl game. KW’s choice of words stating, Rose is “not ready” muddied the waters, not going to read too much into it. I truly don’t listen too much of coach speak on game day. Coaches are contractually obligated to respond to a bunch of dumb questions before, during, and after games. I am really looking forward to Spring ball to see how Rising slings it and the development of Rose and Wilson. Player development is Utah’s MO, and it’s got them to where they are now. IMO, Utah does not need a portal QB to take up reps. Any QB coming in to back up Rising is not going to be all that farther ahead of Rose or Wilson. Plenty of QB talent for Ludwig to build on for the future. A couple deep threat WRs would be preferable.
        
        01/02/2024 at 10:53 AM #209164
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        concerned
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        FWIW, I’ve heard that Rose’s problem is that he is not the sharpest tool in the shed (to put it mildly) which is why he cant pick up the offense. To me the issue is not necessarily development but evaluation–why did we recruit Rose if he cant grasp the offense, why did we recruit Nate J. if we told him to switch to reciever because he was never going to be a qb, and why recruit Howard only to send him packing?
        
        01/02/2024 at 11:59 AM #209173
        
        Charlie
        Participant
        
        Actually, we do need a portal QB. You need extra QBs in practice. It is not always offense vs defense in practice. A QB may be working with the RBs and line, a QB is working with the receivers, a QB is working with the scout team getting the opponent offense down, QB1 could be offline with the OC, and none of this stops while a QB resting an injury. God forbid 2 QBs have issues. There is a reason most teams have 5.
        
        In the world with 5 almost never are 5 used in games. Very common to have a WO QB. Very common to have a long shot QB on scholarship. Very common to have QBs that never make it to QB1. In the world of 3*QBs it is hard to read potential from video, it is hard to get an honest heads up from a HS coach. A couple of QBs that never figure in is common. Takes a couple to find 1 often.
        
        If you are Alabama or Georgia the fridge is full of QBs that take little time to become QB1. Everyone else has only 1 with a second half way there. To stay ranked all year, as we know, you really need a QB1a and a QB1b ready to go. Right now we don’t know that we have 2 ready to go, it is imperative that we bring in a quality portal QB. In addition, I am happy to have another maybe/maybe not QB and another athlete/QB as well. Wilson will be happy to plow thru a good group just as he would do in any of his other quality options.
        
        01/02/2024 at 12:06 PM #209175
        
        concerned
        Participant
        
        If you re happy with those qb’s then you cant complain that we didnt develop them properly.
        
        01/02/2024 at 12:13 PM #209177
        
        stbone
        Participant
        
        When we are discussing QB development, I think we hugely mischaracterize success rates in developing QBs. At the end of the day, high-level QB play is so valuable because it is so rare. QB success is nearly impossible to scout because it ultimately comes down to a weird mixture of experiences, character, physical ability, mental ability, and confidence.
        
        To put it in perspective, QB development is so challenging that teams develop whole offensive systems to allow for poor QB play. That isn’t done at any other position. Rather, if any other position plays poorly, you swap them for next man up.
        
        The fact that we have now strung two of our programs best QB’s in a row seems to be an indication that we are doing lots of things right in identifying and developing QBs.
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