Can someone explain our delay of game penalty?

This topic has 9 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by eeflyer.

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- 10/15/2017 at 8:06 AM #44636
  
  Larry B
  Participant
  
  The ref stands over the ball while USC figures out who they want on defense and our offense is literally standing there ready to snap the ball… and the penalty is on us? WTF?
- 10/15/2017 at 8:23 AM #44639
  
  gUrthBrooks
  Participant
  
  I guess the lesson is, snap the ball, unless you hear a whistle. Could Utah have been penalized for snapping the ball early?
  - 10/15/2017 at 8:33 AM #44640
    
    ironman1315
    Participant
    
    Yes. That penalty was all on the refs. The D only has 3 seconds immediately after the offense subs. That was ridiculous.
- 10/15/2017 at 8:59 AM #44641
  
  vcsg01
  Participant
  
  Not the first time that has happened to Utah in an end of game situation.
- 10/15/2017 at 9:29 AM #44649
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  Utahute72
  Participant
  
  Someone needs to write the league to correct this situation. The rule states that the defense has a chance to IMMEDIATELY substitute if the offense substitutes. They even place a time limit on it of 3 seconds. That debacle started well after this time limit and was drawn out by a defensive player lumbering out and another lumbering off. The Refs need to either reset the clock or step back and allow the offense to snap the ball.
- 10/15/2017 at 9:49 AM #44656
  
  THEeyepatch
  Participant
  
  Somewhat similar…
  
  http://https://youtu.be/D-ELRub8n7s
  - 10/15/2017 at 9:51 AM #44659
    
    THEeyepatch
    Participant
- 10/15/2017 at 10:40 AM #44680
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  eeflyer
  Participant
  
  The ref stands over the ball while USC figures out who they want on defense and our offense is literally standing there ready to snap the ball… and the penalty is on us? WTF?
  
  My response…
  
  Trojan fan here, but I was curious about this too. Here’s the text from rule 3-5-3:
  
  When Team A sends in its substitutes, the officials will not allow the ball to be snapped until Team B has been given an opportunity to substitute. *** If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.
  
  PENALTY—(First Offense)—Dead-ball foul. Delay of game on Team B for not completing its substitutions promptly, or delay of game on Team A for causing the play clock to expire. Five yards from the succeeding spot.
  
  There is no “3 seconds” requirement which is not surprising given how little time that is.
  
  The way I read it is that the defense will be penalized for the clock hitting 00 if they don’t substitute “promptly.” However, so long as the defense makes its substitution “promptly,” the offense will retain the risk of play clock hitting 00. Basically, the offense shouldn’t let too much time run off of the 40- or 25- second clock before making its substitution.
  
  My take away is substitute EARLY.
  
  I wonder if the USC coaches were on top of this subtlety so they purposely substituted some relatively slow moving players? Or, did they just make the substitution that seemed best and it happened as it happened?
  - 10/15/2017 at 10:44 AM #44682
    
    Tony (admin)
    Keymaster
    
    Thanks for the comment @eeflyer and welcome to the board. So we should interpret then that the offense should have subs done earlier than 3 seconds left on the play clock? Maybe they should make it 5 seconds and the numbers turn red or something. I thought that was terrible officiating in that entire series.
    - 10/15/2017 at 4:29 PM #44721
      
      eeflyer
      Participant
      
      Hi Tony,
      
      Thanks for the welcome.
      
      I’m no expert, but I don’t think there’s any sort of 3 second rule. I think it has to be a LOT earlier. In fact, Utah’s new player came running in with about 14 seconds left.
      
      I was at the game, but I just replayed it on the DVR with around 13:13 left in the 4^th quarter. On 1^st and 10, receivers Demari Simpkins #17 and Siaosi Wilson #80 were lined up to the right. A handoff to RB Moss #2 nets 3 yards. It’s now 2^nd and 7. As soon as the play ended, the 40-second play clock began counting down.
      
      26 seconds later, with 14 seconds left on the play clock, you see Utah running back Troy McCormick, Jr. #4 running in as an apparent substitution for WR Simpkins #17. Simpkins was already offscreen, so I don’t know exactly when he left, but I don’t think it matters.
      
      The USC coaches reacted to McCormick, Jr. by sending in a defensive substitute. DT Brandon Pili #91 runs in and taps out DT Josh Falu #98.
      
      As required by the rules, the refs hold up the snap until Falu is completely off the field.
      
      The play clock hits 0 and nobody had called time out. So, as I understand it, *somebody* is getting a delay of game penalty. The only question is who.
      
      Unless the refs decided that USC was the culprit for purposely “not completing its substitutions promptly,” then Utah owns the penalty for causing the clock to expire.
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