For the fire Whitt crowd

This topic has 28 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 1 month ago by ironman1315.

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- 09/24/2018 at 3:49 PM #69172
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  Duhwayne
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  Nebraska dropped Bo Pellini for too many “disappointing” nine win seasons.They went from a 70.9% win percentage under Pelini to 46.3% win percentage under Riley/Frost.
- 09/24/2018 at 4:01 PM #69175
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  EagleMountainUte
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  Is Nebraska comparable to Utah in any way?
  - 09/24/2018 at 4:12 PM #69180
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    Stone
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    I am sure people can find many comparisons and contrasts between Utah and Nebraska that are true. The point, however, is that coaching changes are risky. Is there potential upside, of course, but there is also potential downside. Thus, unless a program is in really bad shape (and I would argue Utah is not), then the risks of coaching changes probably do not outweigh the benefits. Even when there is a “home run” hire available, the risks remain. Scott Frost was one that most would consider a home run hire. Chip Kelly the same. Although early in their tenures, their results are likely discouraging for most fans of those schools. Arkansas did not have a home run hire, but boy are they in bad shape with a new coach at the helm. For every Urban Meyer hire, there are many more that never exceed the previous coach’s results. I think there was a nice analysis in an articule about this last year, I will see if I can find it.
    - 09/24/2018 at 4:20 PM #69183
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      EagleMountainUte
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      You can also list off success stories. Utah hires urban and Whitt.
      - 09/24/2018 at 4:38 PM #69193
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        Stone
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        I did mention Urban Meyer (and I guess Whit is in the eye of the beholder, I consider him a great hire, but it sounds like many would dispute that). Regardless, I am not trying to make an exhaustive list, just pointing out the risks of thinking a new coach is the answer, and how even “home run” hires don’t always pan out.
        
        By the way, here is the article I referenced about how, unless your program really is in the crapper, coaching changes are a big risk:
        
        https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/11/27/16704020/kevin-sumlin-todd-graham-texas-am-arizona-state-coaches-fired
        
        09/24/2018 at 5:08 PM #69196
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        EagleMountainUte
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        I think Whitt was a great hire but it is time to move on. Reality is people are happy plateauing right now. Utah may not get it done scoring one touchdown a game.
    - 09/24/2018 at 4:30 PM #69190
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      ProudUte
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      There are indeed risks in hiring a new coach. I don’t know what the answer is. But, I know Whitt has been here for many years and it’s the same old problem.
      
      The question is – are we satisfied to be the Indiana or Purdue of the PAC12? Because, I am now convinced that we will be nothing more under KW. I wanted him to be successful. I like him as a person and he has a great defensive mind. But, he has never gone out and hired a top offensive coordinator except possibly Chow and he was a family friend. Look at some of his opffensive coordinators; Our current coordinator had one year experience at an FCS school. We had ARod. He hired a 25 year old Johnson as his coordinator. He needed to look outside his group of friends, former players, etc. But, I think he likes the control and it has not worked for him.
      
      If we end up less than 7-5 this season – I personally think it is time to make a change. But, I do not see that happening with a new AD. In fact, I think we could go 2-10 and he probably will not get fired this year.
      
      Like Mac, Whitt has served us well. But, also like Mac – I think he has hit his ceiling. If you are okay with that – keep him. I am not okay with it. I want more and I don’t think Whitt will get us there. He has had his chances and year after year – he fails to get us to the next level.
      
      That being said, let’s see what happens this Saturday and the rest of the season before suggesting coaching changes.
      - 09/24/2018 at 4:52 PM #69195
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        Stone
        Participant
        
        Your question is essentially whether fans are okay with winning records, but no championships. The answer is that most fans, if presented with the option of (a) winning records, but no championships or (b) some championships now and again. I think the obvious answer for every fan would be answer (b).
        
        But my point is that you might be choosing between (a) winning records but no championships, (b) some championships, or (c) losing records and no championships. Your question is a hypothetical with a false choice. Nobody knows whether firing Whit would turn out better or worse. All we can do is guess. Coudl things get better? Of course. Could they get worse? Of course (some on here posit that things are as bad as they can get, and if Utah doesn’t end up winning another game this season, I would tend to agree).
        
        I think the McBride to Urban Meyer hire skews the perspective of many Utah fans. Urban Meyer is one of the preeminent coaches in college football. Utah won the lottery with that hire (albeit for only two years). I am not saying Whit needs to stay or go (I would only fire him if the program really starts to crater), but we need to be realistic about the downside risks. Many commenters in favor of firing Whit (not necessarily you) act as if there is no downside. But the reality is there is PLENTY of downside. Doesn’t mean Whit is the best coach out there or the best coach Utah will ever get. It just means that there are plenty of examples of firing a good head coach and then getting worse. See here: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/11/27/16704020/kevin-sumlin-todd-graham-texas-am-arizona-state-coaches-fired
        
        09/24/2018 at 7:39 PM #69211
        
        ProudUte
        Participant
        
        I understand what you are saying and it is not black and white. It was not my intention to portray it that way. I did start by saying yes there is a risk and I know that. At some point is that risk worth taking? There will always be a difference of opinion on that and I get that we are all not going to feel the same. I respect other’s opinions on this matter.
        
        For me – I firmly believe we can do better. IMO there is no reason why we are almost always one of the worst offensive teams in the conference. Why can’t we do better? IMO, Whit is ultimately responsible and has never had the balls to get an offensive coordinator who may push back. A good leader hires the best and lets them do their job. I always hope that the newest OC is the guy. I hoped Taylor would be the guy.
        
        Our offense appears to be in a dire condition. In past years the problem has been in the red zone. Now, we can’t even get to the red zone. What we have seen the last two weeks is beyond unacceptable. Can we bounce back? I sure hope we do. But, I admit I am not too optimistic right now because I have seen little to get me excited outside Covey and every team will make sure that he gets little chance to get the ball in the open field. Without other weapons – Covey will never survive the season.
    - 09/30/2018 at 10:11 PM #70635
      
      TexanUte
      Participant
      
      Your comment above about more coaches doing worse doesnt make mathematical sense. If this were the case then eventually most schools would go to zero wins as the number of seasons goes to infinity. The football season is a zero sum game and the number of winners is balanced by the number of losers. Your comment can be disproved mathematically.
  - 09/24/2018 at 5:44 PM #69200
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    Duhwayne
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    Yes, they have a better brand.
- 09/24/2018 at 4:12 PM #69179
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  mokus
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  There were also allegations of drugs and sex with boosters or something…but point taken.
- 09/24/2018 at 4:22 PM #69184
  
  ironman1315
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  I think we ride out the Whitt wave for 3 years. Then let him ride off into the sunset if he hasn’t produced a Pac-12 title. Find the new guy.
  - 09/24/2018 at 4:24 PM #69185
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    EagleMountainUte
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    Four wins going into BYU you wanna ride that out??
    - 09/24/2018 at 4:25 PM #69187
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      ironman1315
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      I was unaware that we have only four wins this year. Where the hell did the month of October and most of November go.
      - 09/24/2018 at 4:26 PM #69188
        
        EagleMountainUte
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        I didn’t know this turned into reality conversation vs What if.
        
        09/24/2018 at 4:29 PM #69189
        
        ironman1315
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        ARe you asking for a response to a hypothetical? Dunno. We will see when we get there. It’s entirely possible that we get Moss and Shyne injured then all three of our QBs and go after 4 wins and maybe I won’t be too upset. If it’s four wins as presently constituted I would strongly encourage him to retire or fire him. But I highly doubt 4 wins will happen. Thinking more like 7-9.
        
        09/24/2018 at 5:13 PM #69198
        
        EagleMountainUte
        Participant
        
        Yeah I was asking a hypothetical seemed pretty clear considering Utah hadn’t made it past 2 wins.
        
        09/24/2018 at 6:50 PM #69203
        
        ironman1315
        Participant
        
        You keep acting like 4 wins is a foregone conclusion. So forgive my misunderstanding of your question. But as you saw it really depends how we get to 4 wins.
        
        09/24/2018 at 7:02 PM #69207
        
        EagleMountainUte
        Participant
        
        WHAT IF…. Whitt fires Troy Taylor let’s GA take over the offense with the stipulation he has to wear a ballerina costume and he changes the snap cadence to the Nutcracker suite and only manages two more wins against fUCLA and Stanford?
- 09/24/2018 at 4:35 PM #69191
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  User Suspended
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  Hurray!!! for 70%!!!! B- is awesome!!
  - 09/24/2018 at 4:37 PM #69192
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    ironman1315
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    Question: would you rather have a 70% winning percentage or a 40% winning percentage?
    - 09/24/2018 at 5:12 PM #69197
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      EagleMountainUte
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      Reality is you don’t know if Nebraska is the result if Utah changes. Someone keeps talking up the talent on this offense I have yet to see ANY talent on this offense other than Covey and a hobbled Moss. Maybe someone else running it can fix the offense and keep a respectable defense going. I feel like we are at that McBride point and could hire someone who cashes in on Whitts work.
      
      Saying we are going to use Moss more sounds cute but that is also what has hobbled him the play calling.
      - 10/01/2018 at 9:44 AM #70689
        
        Utesbyfive
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        Solomon Enis looks like he has a ton of potential. He needs to get more targets.
        
        10/01/2018 at 9:59 AM #70695
        
        ironman1315
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        I agree here. He should take Simpkins spot, put Simpkins on the backup slot role.
    - 09/24/2018 at 5:19 PM #69199
      
      EagleMountainUte
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      I would also say I have more evidence of Whitt completely failing at offense with MULTIPLE coordinators over years vs Utah will completely fail at a new hire resulting in 2 wins for five years.
      - 10/01/2018 at 9:59 AM #70694
        
        ironman1315
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        While not perfectly applicable, do you remember Boylen and Giacoletti?
- 09/25/2018 at 10:32 AM #69239
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  Duhwayne
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  Btw re the Urban hire. Utah was a stepping stone school that is trying to be a destination school now. Urban was never going to stay.
  
  We’re not USC. We’re not even UW or ASU. Whoever replaces Whitt needs to know how to do Mormons and Polys. Actually I hope David Shaw is fired the year Whitt retires. That would be a great fit. Power O and great defense.
- 09/30/2018 at 10:08 PM #70634
  
  TexanUte
  Participant
  
  Nice rationale on Scott Frost in Nebraska. Has zero of his recruits yet. Let me know in 2 seasons how your comment ages. Are you saying a Whit replacement might only win 50% of their games in their first season? Wow some change that would be.
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