BYU fan here, I come in peace

[Jim McMahon]

I promise I am not an irrational BYU fan. I have family members who played for Utah and cheer for them. Most rational BYU fans, and believe me, there are a lot of us, will readily admit that you have passed us up in football. It’s obvious that you have deeper, more talented teams and that you have benefitted from P12 membership and Whitt’s leadership.

Now that we are in the B12, and fingers crossed for us that it actually stays together, I have a sincere question. Would you be open to continuing the rivalry (in-state game as you lovingly, and a bit condescendingly call it haha)? You have had much more to lose playing this game over the last decade and I get why many of you have wanted it to go away. But again, if the B12 can stay together and be a solid conference, would you as fans be open to continuing to play the rivalry game?

Despite the last decade of pain I’ve endured as a BYU fan, I have always loved playing Utah. Some of my best football memories are from games we won, and I have to think you feel the same way. I think the vitriol and animosity could be turned down now that we are in a P5 conference and your guys don’t have as much to lose.

Lastly, good luck on Saturday. Please go easy on us and please for once, can you guys be the team that makes the boneheaded mistakes?

[EagleMountainUte]

Utah makes plenty of boneheaded mistakes but still manages to win. Sometimes those mistakes are forced by your opponent btw.

The new P12/B1G/ACC alliance is interesting from a scheduling perspective. If the P12 goes to an 8 game in conference schedule I think some flexibility is afforded to schedule the in state game. Largely depends on that I believe.

[Jim McMahon]

Believe me, I know. I jest. Utah just knows how to control their emotions when they play BYU. I feel like BYU is too on-edge, partly from losing 9 in a row. Utah comes into the games, calm and collected. Whitt always has your guys mentally prepared for us. I envy that. 

[PhiladelphiaUte]

The zoobs always like to claim Utah’s dominance is due to a “mental” edge.  But it’s not “mental”.  It’s the better coaching, facilities, nutrition, and athletes/recruiting.  It’s because Utah is just the better team.

[chinngiskhaan]

My honest answer: I don’t want the game to continue happening yearly. I’m comfortable with where me team is relative to BYU. I don’t need to be reminded that we are the better program every year. I do have a lot of good memories from the rivalry games (I attended the Ratliff comeback, the beck to Harline, the doink, 54-10, and a few others), but the way things stand now, and for the foreseeable future, Utah is widely considered the better football program, and playing regularly only opens up more opportunities for that perception to change. If/when BYU starts to challenge that perception by being consistently ranked in the top 25, and ultimately seriously challenging my Utes for recruits, then the game needs to be played as many times as it takes to reinforce that our program is better (if it in fact is at that point, whenever that happens). Going forward if Utah wins, the perception stays the same. If they lose, it starts to change with every loss. I will say this though. I think a loss hurts Utah less going forward because of BYU’s conference affiliation.

I wouldn’t be sad if the game was never played again, but I welcome the opportunity once every 3 years or so… I suspect many feel this way.

[Jim McMahon]

I would feel the same way if the shoe was on the other foot. “What else do we have to prove? We only risk parity by continuing to play them.”

However, it is one of the best rivalries in the nation with historically very close games. Us BYU fans obviously want it a lot more because we have gotten owned recently. I don’t fault Utah fans for not wanting to continue it, but I think rivalries are what makes CFB such a magical sport. 

I love TX/OK, Auburn/Bama, Ohio St./Mich, UCLA/USC. If rivalries went away, the sport would not be as intriguing, IMO.

[Larry B]

Personally I hope the best thing that comes from BYU getting into the B12 is that it makes it harder for Utah to schedule them. I would be ok with the game being played every few years but not more often than that. Just my .02.

[Central Coast Ute]

Personally, I don’t think it will be feasible with the Alliance scheduling. I’m sure they’ll play every few years and I’m ok with that. Thank you for coming here and speaking the way you did. Personally I don’t mind a little good natured trash talk among fans. Unfortunately most BYU fans I come across get too emotional so I just leave it alone. On the flip side, there have been a few good ones to talk smack with and it’s a lot of fun. I wish BYU good luck in the Big 12.

[Jim McMahon]

Thanks. It’s tough for BYU fans to admit that your football program has passed us up. We had the upper hand for a long time, and it’s hard to see that flipped. I tip my hat to your program and wish you continued success. Just not tomorrow night. 

I really feel like we have to win this one, not just to end the streak, but to make you guys want to play us haha. It’s to the point where you all have nothing to gain or prove. Only way that ends is for us to put up a freaking W at some point. 

[Central Coast Ute]

This game tomorrow is probably the most important matchup since the MWC days. With BYU joining the B12, who knows when the next time they’ll play. Either Utah makes it 10 in a row and it stays that way for a while, or BYU breaks the streak and Utah can’t have any sort of pay back for a while. This could also be Whitts last rivalry game.

Go Utes!

[MDUte]

@Jim McMahon, thanks for posting on here and congrats on joining the Big 12! It’s not only huge for BYU and your fanbase but it’s great for the entire state of Utah as well.

I respect all of the opinions that have been shared on here and I realize that we all come at this from different experiences and perspectives. I was beginning to feel like others on here that there was no upside for Utah to play the game. However, I’ve come to realize that what makes college football so special are the traditions and rivalries that have taken so many years to establish. And the majority of my favorite moments in Utah football have been tied to the rivalry game over the years.

IMO, it would be an absolute shame to throw our rich history away moving forward. Utah/BYU is without question one of the best rivalries in the country. With how intertwined our teams, coaching staffs, and fan bases are there’s just nothing like it anywhere in the country.

I for one want to see the game played every year possible. I realize that situations/opportunities might arise where one or both schools want to push the pause button (ie. Michigan H-H or Florida H-H) and that’s ok. But now that BYU is joining the Big 12 and the game will be against two P5 schools, my hope is that it will be played each and every year. Both USC and Stanford have continued to play their rivalry games every year with Notre Dame and I’d like to see us do the same. And if both conferences eventually go to 8 game conference schedules then I think there’s no excuse not to play the game every year.

I do agree that the vocal minority on both sides end up ruining it for many. But even with all that I find enjoyment/entertainment out of the craziness and stupidity that the rivalry brings out of people. As bad as our fan bases seem at times, all major rivalries have their fair share of vitriol and toxicity. IMO it comes with the territory but the good FAR outweighs the bad.

Congrats again on the Big 12. I’m truly excited for you and all of Cougar Nation. Here’s to another 100 years of one of the greatest rivalries in all of college football!

[Yergensen]

Congratulations on B12, I sincerely mean it.  

I have issues with your school and I’m a card carrying church member.  However, I think your football program has some cache and really broke down some walls for the outsiders in CFB in innovative ways, albeit a long time ago.

I think we’re going to find we’re squarely on two different paths now with you in B12 and the alliance and so on.  Rivalries really don’t thrive or even survive across conferences.  Unless there are strong personal interests with influence that want the game to still be played every year, I think these recent developments will further weaken the rivalry.

That said, we have at least one more rivalry game sure to be played and no more niceties >>> #10ishere.

[Tomasina]

With BYU joining the Big12, I think the game makes much more sense to continue as it is not a no-win scenario as it is currently.  If you win, you have beat a school from a P5 conference, and if you lose, you have lost to a P5 opponent.  I would add that with the lack of talent within the the new Big12, I expect BYU to do well in that conference, and thus our wins will look more impressive than they do currently.

With all that said, as long as we maintain a 9 conference game schedule, I agree that playing every year does not make a lot of sense… and maybe not even if we go to 8 games a year if we are expected to schedule within the alliance.  I do think, however, that we should try and continue the rivalry as it consistently ranks as one of the best in the country… despite the annoyance of those irrational fans on each side.

My last point is that if the rivalry continues… it needs to stay at the start of the season.  Having that level of distraction when you are in the middle of the hunt for a division or conference championship, or even preparing for a championship  is not helpful, and increases the odds of players getting hurt prior to a critical game.  If it cannot happen at the beginning of the season… it should not happen.  

[Stone]

I am in favor of continuing to play the game semi-regularly. Maybe 6-8 years out of 10. Iowa State and Iowa do a solid job of keeping their game going in different conferences. I think having an in-state rival is a great thing for fans.

[GameForAnyFuss]

Sorry, no…I have no desire to play BYU-Provo Campus in any sport, ever again. It has nothing to do with conference affiliation. It has everything to do with the way your players, coaches, and fans represent the church. You seem like a nice person, but I feel like for whatever reason your school attracts an inordinately high percentage of total pricks, and because of that, I’d rather just not deal with BYU-Provo Campus ever again.

Again, it’s nothing personal against you.

[Jim McMahon]

I don’t take it personally. I feel like most fans of teams or level-headed. It’s the vocal minority that unfortunately ruins it for everyone. 

There are plenty of BYU fans who feel the exact same way about Utah’s fan base. My experience is that most Utah fans I interact with are level-headed and we have a good-natured ribbing, back and forth (well, mostly it’s me taking their crap because you’ve owned us lately). 

Anyway, I’m sorry you feel that way but you are entitled to your view. 

[GameForAnyFuss]

Agreed. Every fanbase has its pricks. Sadly I’ve met several Utah fans who are pricks too. But I still maintain that the BYU-Provo Campus has more than average. I blame it on a couple of things:

1. Too many BYU-Provo Campus fans have their testimonies linked to the performance of BYU-PC sports. That makes their personal investment in sports very high…I would argue too high.
2. In our very proper church culture, we’re expected to behave properly all the time. Sports fandom is the one area in our lives where we can “cut loose”. Some BYU-PC fans take this to the extreme.
3. Church members have a built-in persecution complex that’s been drilled into us from years of 2nd and 3rd hour lessons about the pioneers being kicked out of everywhere, the world has always opposed the true church, etc. So when BYU-PC fans perceive they’re being attacked, they tend to lash out harshly.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

I’d rather not.  I just don’t see the point.  Utah wins all the time, and the tdS keeps calling them “flukes” and insisting they’re the better team.  And don’t tell me that most rational fans recognize that Utah has long been the better team, because we see what you’re saying on the comment sections in the SLTrib, DNews, and cougarboard.  When the scoreboard doesn’t determine the better team, what’s the point in playing it?

I’m also sick and tired of all these dubious folklore tales of beer bucket brigades dousing innocent zoobies.  Or urine balloons.  Or bogus physical assaults.  They’re all complete total bull***t.  Ever notice how every time some classless zoob does something like assault a Utah cheerleader, or a coach’s wife, the referees, there’s video and/or photographic evidence of it?  Well you’d think with the volume of all those tall-tales zoobs like to make up, there’s have been at least ONE video of it happening.  Or at least ONE photograph.  Seriously….how could a Ute fan bring in an inflated blow up sex doll of Max Hall’s mom, and NOBODY took a picture.  Why isn’t there any evidence at all….other than “stories” told and retold every year by your fanbase?

Furthermore, if RES is such a dangerous place, why is it that the only fanbase looking to preserve the former rivalry….are the ones who are allegedly so mistreated?

Zoobies are the most toxic fanbase I’d ever encountered.  They lie.  They’re arrogant.  They’re classless.  And they think they can do no wrong.  Just listen to all those ESPN games, and contrast that with the Al-Jazoobie games.  On ESPN, you can hear them talking about all these “helmet-to-helmet” hits ybU-p delivers on their opponents, but that very same play on Al-Jazoobie will always call it “a good clean shoulder hit”.  Well guess what?  Shoulder pads don’t make that sound.  Only helmets do, and ONLY when it’s two helmets colliding.  Why should Utah’s players and fans have to put up with that crap?

I’m done with it.

[Jim McMahon]

Haha. I think both team’s fans make up a lot of crap. For all the stories you’ve cited here, I could share tons of Ute fans sharing similar stories. From my experience, again, I think most fans are level headed but its the vocal minority that ruins it for everyone else. I think a lot of it is confirmation bias too. We are always looking for any little negative thing to confirm our entire viewpoint of the other’s fanbase.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

I’m sure you CAN share a ton of stories.  ALL zoobies can.  But what they CAN’T do, share any video or photographic evidence.  Only anectdotal stories that can’t be confirmed.  It’s kinda hard to prove a fairy tale ya know.

[Jim McMahon]

If you were being impartial you could see that there are tons of Ute fans who share crazy anecdotes about BYU fans too. Every fan base does it. I’m sure most of them are fabricated or exaggerated. 

Again, I believe MOST fans are rational. Very vocal minority ruins it. But don’t pretend it’s just BYU fans with crazy stories. Both our fan bases have their share of idiots, even if you pretend it’s one sided. 

[Ute Dub]

I promise I am not an irrational BYU fan. I have family members who played for Utah and cheer for them. Most rational BYU fans, and believe me, there are a lot of us, will readily admit that you have passed us up in football. It’s obvious that you have deeper, more talented teams and that you have benefitted from P12 membership and Whitt’s leadership.

Now that we are in the B12, and fingers crossed for us that it actually stays together, I have a sincere question. Would you be open to continuing the rivalry (in-state game as you lovingly, and a bit condescendingly call it haha)? You have had much more to lose playing this game over the last decade and I get why many of you have wanted it to go away. But again, if the B12 can stay together and be a solid conference, would you as fans be open to continuing to play the rivalry game?

Despite the last decade of pain I’ve endured as a BYU fan, I have always loved playing Utah. Some of my best football memories are from games we won, and I have to think you feel the same way. I think the vitriol and animosity could be turned down now that we are in a P5 conference and your guys don’t have as much to lose.

Lastly, good luck on Saturday. Please go easy on us and please for once, can you guys be the team that makes the boneheaded mistakes?

My response…

[wcrunner]

Jim McMahon

The reason you play non conf games is for recruiting.  The two schools are from the same media market.  It hurts both teams not to get to areas where they can increase their recruiting net.  In the stone age days of the 20th century, local rivalries were needed to reduce travel costs, and because colleges didn’t have millions of $$$.  But in the current climate, both schools lose when they play each other.  It would be fine if they meet in a bowl game.

[Tony (admin)]

Good discussion. Thanks for stopping by.

[BD]

I like the rivalry game. Of course, my college football beginnings go back to about 1980. I remember watching the Holiday Bowl – BYU vs. SMU with the miracle finish. That’s how far I go back.

So with that, it is a bit difficult to give up the game. Something special is in the air about the game, but that might have more to do with my nostalgia than anything else.

Having said that, I support playing about 7 or 8 years out of 10. I think it is good for both programs to take the occassional year off. There are benefits for that – above all, recruiting benefits.

My guess is that your fanbase will want to take some games off occassionally too. Which is kind of funny, because when Utah didn’t schedule BYU in 2014/2015, many BYU fans were offended. Now, trust me – BYU fans will be supportive of a year off from the rivalry game from time to time.

Congrats on the BigXII invite. I think it is good for BYU, and good for the state of Utah. You guys will absolutely love being in a P5 conference. I cannot overemphasize how fun it is. Get used to some losses, however, and even some seasons where BYU won’t make it to .500 winning (see Utah 2012/2013). BYU won’t just steamroll everyone – they will do everything to keep you guys down. You’ll have some good seasons, compete for the conference championship at times, and at others you’ll scratch your head at your team’s performance. It’s all good and fun.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

BD — I’ll bet the tdS goes back to requiring one-offs and 2-for-1s from Utah State as well.

[Jim McMahon]

Thanks!

[Charlie]

Living in Provo, I started going to Y games in the late 50s with friends. The Y did not win many and the Utah-USU game was the big instate game. In 72 Edwards came in but was assisted with a athletic budget that jumped up to about as much as the rest of the WAC combined. He won 16 of 18 until Mac came in and it become a 50/50 thing until the Utes moved to the Pac. I expect the Y to take about 4 years to get competitive in the new conference or about in 6 years. Until then Utah will be favored. After that, I expect the X12 will first be focused on trying to remain a P5. With everyone interested in having a easy warm up game, the interest in this game may become a 2nd or 3rd priority and will only be frequent.

[UteFanatic]

You hit the nail on the head for why many Utah fans called for ending the rivalry: Utah had more to lose in this game than BYU did, and we didn’t feel like it was benefitting us anymore to play it.

You’ll see that elevated membership brings with it certain expectations. You’re expected to beat G5 teams, and if you lose to them it’s considered a really bad loss. BYU, while not G5 per definition was kind of a G5-level team if you go by recruiting rankings and overall performance.

It was expected that Utah beat BYU, so when we did, great, that’s what was supposed to happen. If we lost, it would be considered a bad loss. The risk/reward is low.

For these reasons, I was in favor of eliminating the BYU game because I wanted to play higher quality opponents (i.e. Michigan, Florida, etc.). Winning against these teams means a lot, and Utah gets talked about when they do. But if they lose, not really a huge deal either because they are talented teams and a loss against them early in the season doesn’t hurt much.

My stance on this moving forward now that BYU is in the Big12, is that I would be in favor of continuing the game on yearly basis as long as BYU continues to be competitive and is considered a good team. If they fall to the bottom of the Big12, then I won’t be as excited to play the game because a cellar-dweller P5 team carries a lot of the same stigma as a G5 team.

So, in summary, I would love to play BYU every year so long as they stay competitive in the Big12. A showdown between two of the conference’s better teams would be an absolute blast. The rivalry game might finally get the national attention it deserves.

[Roy Rangum]

I appreciate your post, and I agree with your other comments that I think both fan bases can get a little myopic when it comes to how we view the other. For both Utah and BYU, it’s too easy to see just the obnoxious fans while looking past the reasonable / nice fans.

I think the rivalry game is a lot of fun, and think BYU being in the B12 only improves it as it should not only help BYU become more competitive, but makes it a more meaningful win for Utah. While I hope it continues, I don’t know that it’s realistic that the game happens every year, and I think there should be room for both teams to schedule other games too. For example, the years when we traded BYU on the schedule for Michigan were pretty awesome, and I’m looking forward to Florida next year too.

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