Can I get an amen?

[Duhwayne]

Particularly appreciated the last woman “asking suggestively” that a doctor on the council go back to school.

Meanwhile, in Florida.. https://t.co/HBviAlNPQi

— Majority Report (@majorityfm) June 24, 2020

The ignorant mind is not a spotless vessel. It’s a tangle of irrelevant, nonsensical, false and misapplied facts and beliefs. 

Just wear the damn mask. It’s not for you. 

 

[User Suspended]

Just perused cougarboard….it’s amazing how many of them are fighting the mask wearing. All for selfish reasons.

So freaking weird.

[dystopiamembrane]

“…they want to throw god’s wonderful breathing system out the door,” and “1984 was the best LDS sports year.”

[Duhwayne]

Just as long as the mask rejectors also decline ventilators for themselves and their families. Disps**ts like that will act like it was a tragedy that their spouse got sick. Guess who did it. I had a work counterpart at another company complaining about quarantine back in April. Her husband was a grocer. He brought it home and two weeks later her company held a Zoom vigil for her. This is not a joke.

[Stone]

I understand your rationale, but it seems pretty twisted and rather hearltess to condemn someone’s family for the actions of one person in the family. 

Would you also apply that policy in other contexts? Should someone that eats too much sugar and gets diabetes be denied treatment? Should their family also be denied treatment based on the actions of the family member? Should a drug addict be denied treatment due to decisions to use drugs? Should a person that fails to exercise be denied treatment for heart conditions? Should their family also be denied treatment because of that family member’s action? 

[Duhwayne]

Taking this way too literally. The point is stop being a selfish POS, be respectful of others’ health and wear the damn mask.

[Stone]

If your statement was a joke, then so was mine. 

[dystopiamembrane]

The news personality promised “downright ugly.” They didn’t deliver.

[dystopiamembrane]

Just as long as the mask rejectors also decline ventilators for themselves and their families. Disps**ts like that will act like it was a tragedy that their spouse got sick. Guess who did it. I had a work counterpart at another company complaining about quarantine back in April. Her husband was a grocer. He brought it home and two weeks later her company held a Zoom vigil for her. This is not a joke.

This makes a lot of sense. I hadn’t looked at the issue like that before.

[Stone]

I am not anti-mask, but tell me exactly what is the point of the mask. The answer I hear typically is to prevent the spread of the virus. Okay, fine, but to what end? I see only two paths forward to return to normalcy:

(1) vaccine

(2) herd immunity

If we are doing path no. 1, then masks make sense because then the idea is that we are slowing the spread until there is a vaccine. The challenge with this is that a vaccine may be years away. We also may never get one (lots of viruses have no vaccine). Let’s assume we get the vaccine. How effective will it be? How many people will be willing to get it? Even with the seasonal flu, which kills tens of thousands every year, not everyone takes the vaccine. And even if you get the vaccine, you may still get the flu and die. 

If we are doing path no. 2, let’s just get it done with. More than 99% of people that get the virus will have no issues. Keep the old and infirm isolated, and then let’s throw a big coronavirus party for everyone else and get herd immunity. The only reason to slow this process down would be if hospitals became overwhelmed (i.e., the original purpose of the lockdown). The mask is intended to slow the spread – but if we are going for herd immunity and hospitals are not overwhelmed, then why slow it? Is it just because a long, slow trickle of cases/deaths is more politically palatable than a quick surge?

Someone is likely going to say, that herd immunity is hopeless because there is no guarantee that you are immune after you get it. To which I would say, then a vaccine is also hopeless because that is the WHOLE point of a vaccine (i.e., giving someone a weakened strain so they build immunity).

Media is obssessed lately with infection numbers. Why? Because death counts have dropped drastically. Growing infection numbers are largely irrelevant (and could arguably be a good thing if we are pursing path no. 2). The bigger concern is death counts and hospital capacity. At this point, deaths are way down and hospitals have capacity. 

[UrbanLiar]

You answered yourself. Hospital capacity is decreasing and if the trend continues the healthcare infrastructure can’t respond. Hospitalization lags up to 2 weeks after infection, so the last two weeks of increased infections will have a direct impact on unused capacity. Hopefully we’ll get back to ample capacity.

[Stone]

If that is the case, there is at least some logic behind it. I just have not seen that to be the case yet. Even in NYC, where the outbreak was massive, the makeshift overflow areas were hardly touched. The anticipated need for ventilators also never materialized. 

[Brettski]

THIS.  My brother in law worked on the COVID floor of our local hospital.  They cleared out the entire floor for COVID patients and max had 3 people in the hospital with COVID at the peak.  There was so little activity he was losing shifts for about 3-4 weeks because they overreacted on the impact.  I live in an area similar in size to salt lake valley.

I don’t know anyone who even knows anyone that has had COVID. I don’t have a problem with suggestions to wear masks, but forcing it feels like an overstep by the governments role.  I comply but whatever.  It’s an election year. 

 

[UrbanLiar]

Wish I could say the same about not knowing anyone w/Covid. My mother in law had it last month. We called in hospice thinking she was on her way out but she ended up beating it. We think she had a minor stroke during it, and her verbal skills are now diminished. My daughter is a junior at the U and knows 2 people in their early 20’s that currently have it. Our neighbor’s daughter contracted it a month ago but has recovered. A previous client of mine (age 60) is currently suffering from it. My old boss and his wife currently have it and their 40 year old son is currently in the hospital in SLC with it but not on a ventilator. This s**t is real, people.

[UrbanLiar]

Plus, I guess you don’t follow important Crimson Club donors carefully. I should have included the death of Robert Garff on my list. Great man…

[Stone]

Your closing sentence is the disconnect. I am not arguing that the virus is fake. I fully expect people to get it. It is not going to go away just because we all hide in our homes for a few months. Lockdowns don’t eliminate the virus, they just slow it. Same with masks. They don’t make the virus go away, they just slow the spread. But it will still be there when we eventually leave our homes or stop wearing masks – whether that be weeks, months or years from now. We need to ALL either (1) get it (or get sufficient herd immunity) or (2) get a vaccine. 

By slowing it, we are just keeping old/compromised people locked away longer. I know many elderly that have not left their homes since this started. Rightly so. But are they supposed to live that way indefinitely until a vaccine is found? What if that takes five years? What if it never happens? They may not die of the virus, but they will die of something else eventually, locked away in their homes.

If it were up to me, I would do a Swedish model (pun intended) – but take even better precautions for the elderly than Sweden did. Get the virus through the country as quick as possible (while watching hospital capacity), and then be essentially done with it. Then the elderly can resume normal activities. Waiting for a vaccine seems too speculative.

 

[WelcomeToSackLakeCity]

The problem with your suggestion is that we don’t know if antibodies produced from the initial infection will protect against later infections. There have been reports of antibodies only lasting a few months within previously infected patients, and mutated forms of the virus may be immune to antibodies produced from the initial virus infection.

I don’t think everyone needs to hide in their homes, but people NEED to be willing to adapt to wearing masks and practicing social distancing in public. If we want to start doing the things we like again (going to restaurants, bars, movies, etc.), everyone needs to be willing to join in the preventative measures. The government shouldn’t need to mandate mask wearing, but too many ignorant folks don’t follow the guidelines, resulting in forced mandates and the potential closing of businesses that don’t enforce these policies.

[Stone]

If antibodies produced from the initial infection do not protect against later infections, then how is there any hope for a vaccine? That is the premise of a vaccine. 

I am not anti-mask per se, but, again, is the point to: (1) delay til there is a vaccine, (2) keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed, or (3) slowly get herd immunity?

If no. 1, see statements above (vaccine may never come and its effectiveness is speculative).

If no. 2, see statement below (hospitals are not overwhelmed).

If no. 3, why go slow?

[Central Coast Ute]

I’ll take the Swedish model. And I’m not talking about covid.

[User Suspended]

^ doesn’t know anyone who has covid so not his problem. 

[DataUte]

I see it like this. The (2) scenario (from what I’ve read and somewhat based on Sweden’s slow going getting there) could take 4-5 years. Plus, it’s not just about deaths, or even hospitalizations. Although some people have mild or no effects, people still get sick enough to feel terrible and not be bad enough to need hospitalization. Are we saying people need to go through that (assuming we will eventually get (1))? There are also longer lasting effects we don’t fully understand yet. Some are coming out of it with decreased lung function (scarring) and other things that will affect them for months, years, perhaps the rest of their life.

One hypothesis is that cases are going up while deaths still decrease because: 1) doctors are learning and are better able to treat it and keep more people alive, 2) younger people are getting it, it doesn’t affect them as much hence lower rate of hospitalization and deaths, but they could be spreading it to more susceptible populations, so there’s just a delay before that starts to rise again.

[Tony (admin)]

We aren’t slowing the spread until there’s a vaccine.  We’re slowing it to reduce the chances of hospitals being over capacity.

[Stone]

Slowing the spread to maintain hospital capacity is a valid goal. I agree. But I am not aware of overwhelmed hospitals. I don’t live in Utah, but the stats on Utah (when I checked a couple days ago) indicated there is ample capacity. If that changes, I agree with changing behaviors to ensure there is capacity. But if that is not happening (as seems to be the case), then I go back to my question of what is the point of slowing it?

[GameForAnyFuss]

There are two other reasons why it’s important to slow the spread:

1. To buy time to learn more about the virus and how to treat it. Remember, even if there’s capacity at your local hospital, once you’re in the hospital the mortality rate is still 88%. Increasing survival rates is not solely a function of available beds. More time = more studying = more effective treatments.

2. The virus appears to be evolving to be more contagious but less lethal. This usually happens – it is in the best interest of the virus to spread quickly and leave hosts alive (so they can continue to spread it). We all may get it eventually, but the majority of people will have a much easier go of it if they catch it in the fall, in contrast to those who caught it in the spring.

So yeah…there are multiple reasons to want to slow the spread, and no reasons to want to increase it. Wear a mask, wash your hands, don’t touch your face.

[Stone]

Valid points. I appreciate it. Many people are unwilling to at least discuss this stuff – just name calling.

[Charlie]

My brother (79) saw a doctor last week about something unrelated but talked about covid. The doctor summed it up clinically, if you are at or above your life expectancy given health issues and age, covid is a big problem. If you are below, not so much of a problem. He is healthy so has little concern. Many people do not understand that obesity, heart issues, kidney issues, etc. or combinations move your expectancy forward of the average 78. Lack of health issues moves it back. Doc said, if your life expectancy has expired you should be very concerned.

I wish we could see more relevant info on Utah covid deaths. I expect the doctor is correct in that the vast majority of deaths are individuals past life expectancy. Other deaths may be in line with typical rates in average years. To know we would need to see the data.

So, if this covid thing is like walking on hot coals, should we walk thru slowly? We should do something to help those past their life expectancy point.

[User Suspended]

And wearing a mask isn’t a big ask. If you’re not wearing a mask because you need definitive proof it must be done…you’re selfish and part of the reason the US if a joke when it comes to handling this virus.

[UtesRule]

Speaking as someone who is only 48 years old, but I have a lung disease (and a compromised immune system, which goes hand in hand with my lung disease), if I get COVID-19, there is a high likelihood of a very serious consequence for me (I have had colds or mild flu turn into pneumonia, in the past, which has required hospitalization or home healthcare on IV antibiotics).

So for me, I absolutely do NOT want to get this virus. I, and my family, have chosen to follow a strict quarantine, which has worked for me so far.

However, my wife still has to go out in public, right…to buy groceries, pickup prescriptions, etc. She is vigilant in wearing a mask (to do everything possible to protect me and her family from a NEW virus that NO ONE has immunity to which has now killed more people than the flu or any other illness, not only worldwide, but right here in our country), but if EVERYONE she comes in contact with is NOT wearing a mask, and even if one of those non-mask wearing people has active COVID-19, I am now at risk of becoming infected and a likely serious consequence, up to possibly death.

It is nothing short of selfish and careless of everyone to not wear a mask in public. Even if you have had Covid-19, there is not enough research / evidence to know if that person is now immune. Even if you think you are young, or in good overall health, or not in a high risk category, or are not taking care of or ever seeing your elderly parents or grandparents or someone who is high risk, or you currently don’t have any symptoms, etc., you could be an asymptomatic carrier, putting others at risk.

It’s a very small, selfless act to help protect those of us who are at very high risk.

Think outside your own box.

That’s all I’m asking and I don’t think it’s too outrageous!

[User Suspended]

^ Very well said.

You would think common decency would win the day… but no, many don’t have the capacity to think bigger than themselves.

 

 

[Charlie]

The mask is an easy thing, very reasonable. Closing businesses, I think is the wrong thing at this point.

The hospitals are not overwhelmed with covid patients. Someone on the radio from Texas was responding to CNN reporting that ICU beds were 90 something full. He said they are usually 85% full and 57% were non-covid patients. As the covid patients increase they can cut back on elective surgery. He seemed not concerned that the ICUs were running near full.

[UtesRule]

To illustrate the effectiveness of wearing masks, I present two case studies which have been reported from the past 4-6 weeks:

1. Hair salon in Missouri. Two different employees ended up testing positive for COVID-19. Both worked multiple shifts while infected (unknowingly) and serviced over 150 customers. The store required face masks for all employees AND customers, to which there was 100% compliance. 4 weeks later, no known cases have been reported from those who were exposed from these two gals.

2. A bartender in Florida tested positive for COVID-19. He too, worked several shifts unknowingly infected with it. The bar did NOT require masks and no one wore them. 4 weeks later, over 20 people have tested positive.

Wear your masks people!! It’s not just your right not to wear one, it’s my right to be protected from a new virus that no one had prior immunity to!!!

[WelcomeToSackLakeCity]

I agree, as long as businesses are making people wear masks and enforcing safe social distancing.

[Author]

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