Coming Into This With An Open Mind

[Utah5410]

I do not understand the KW/CR constant bitching on this board.

I do not understand why people think NJ over the course of the remaining games is a better option than CR. many have made the argument “prepare him for next year”, my counter would be who says he’s here next year. Who says we do don’t bring in an amazing Grad T or Issac Wilson comes in and lights the world on fire. It seems that many don’t think we have any chance at a 3-peat or even playoff birth because of SC/UW/UO.

And the constant questioning of Whitt. I loved Sat Win. Whitt did exactly what needed to win the game. Survive and advance, that’s all that matters.

CR gives us the best chance to do that period. It’s not even close. Whitt knows what he’s doing. He’s so smart not only in football but intellectually also. To think that CR is milking this for the league or whatever is so ridiculous. If Whitt had even a smidge of that he would tell CR thanks but no thanks and send him out the door. CR is splitting reps because Whit believes in him and believes he gives them the best chance to win. And if he does bail well then it is what it is. It was a calculated risk, but the right risk given the circumstances.

Personally, I hope CR does not play this week, especially if he is recovering mentally as some here have suggested. I don’t like we need him to win @ OSU..

I think NJ is a tough kid, I think he wants to be great. I think given his limitations with his arm and our injured QB’s the fact that he can run the way he can helps game manage the way we need him too… If we can CONTROL, not stop but CONTROL the run and play ugly. We have the talent and the D to beat OSU in Corvallis. NJ has to hang on the damn ball and not turn it over and game manage the s**t out the offense. But, if we don’t turn it over we win..

Rest Cam, Bring him back against CAL. Bring in Nate here and there to run, cause Cam won’t be able to run. Get 90 percent of our guys back and get ready for the juggernaut.

Sc will be coming off of playing AT Notre Dame (There first true test), they won’t be able to look ahead to us and frankly will prob get beat up by a tough, physically ND team.. First real test for SC (no CU is not a real test). With CR I think we have a very good chance to win.

UO will be coming off @wash very physcaill emotional game and then at home against a good feisty WSU team
( We don’t lose in RES), UO last year in Autzen scored 17 on us.. Our D is way better. We will come off playing at SC so that will be tough. Thank Gawd we are in RES.

UW is the most concerning.. But, they have no depth. Their first 22 is great, But when we play them they could be beat up. Maybe they won’t. But law of averages says everyone will go through there guys being best up like we are now. Also they will come off playing at SC and we come off playing in RES against ASU.

CR gives us out best chance this year. My prediction, we see Cam v Cal. Cam wants to play….. Kuithe, another story, who cares, he seems far more interested in being perfect for the league. Good for him. If he comes back great. But notice how Whitt never talks about him. I personally don’t think he does come back. but whatever. Guys complain about not getting touches, well here’s your chance offensive guys. Shoot your shot, take advantage. Also, get Yaz involved.

Anyone wants to explain why it’s better not to give Cam Reps and kick him to the curb please feel free to do so.

Go Utes.

[DataUte]

Amen

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Amen brother!! If Cam is ready to go Friday why wait? We have a better chance with OSU if Cam plays. Let’s play to win every game. Sprinkle some Johnson in there to mix it up. Cam can hand the ball off with one leg. Where’s Dr Phil when you need him.

[The Miami Ute]

First real test for SC (no CU is not a real test)

I take it you didn’t see USC versus ASU last Saturday night. Am I right? That was a one score game late in the 4th QTR and ASU gave USC all that they could handle and more. Evidently, the AP voters agreed because they dropped USC three spots in the latest poll after that victory. So, I disagree. That Colorado game is going to be a test for USC, especially because the Buffs are playing at home and are coming off a blowout at Oregon. I’m pretty certain that Colorado is going to want to rectify the perception that they’re a soft/smoke and mirrors team, so they’re going to give USC their best shot. Yes, they’ll probably lose to USC but it’s not going to be a gimme.

[Rick]

I think USC will beat Colorado much worse than Oregon did. Do you think they want to leave any doubts in the voters minds like they did last week at ASU? They know they need to run the score up on the Buffs to move back up in the polls. If Travis Hunter doesn’t play I see something like the Dolphins/Broncos game last Sunday.

[The Miami Ute]

Rick, you know why I disagree with you? Because USC’s defense sucks and will allow any competent opposing offense to stay in the game. Any time this year that USC has faced an offense that has a pulse, they’ve looked mediocre at best. As I said, USC will probably win at Boulder but it sure won’t be because their defense kept them in the game.

[D T]

ASU stuck around for a while in part because they were employing gimmicky trick plays…..But the game was never in doubt….ASU was more competitive overall, but there’s a high probability they don’t win another game this year…..Terrible team.

[The Miami Ute]

.But the game was never in doubt

Not sure how anyone could say that when USC just had a seven point lead with 8 minutes left in the 4th QTR. Maybe that’s the way you felt but the scoreboard said different.

[D T]

The gimmicks would eventually come to an end & USC typically hits 40-50+…..It wasn’t rocket science.

It ended that way, didn’t it?

[The Miami Ute]

And there’s never been a game this season where a team comes back from being a TD down in the 4th QTR? Didn’t Utah just do that a couple of weeks ago? I’m not debating the final score. What I am debating is where you said that the game was never in doubt.

[D T]

Never in doubt for an experienced observer who knows the teams involved.

[RoboUte]

Because immobile Cam Rising is a mediocre quarterback> Cam Rising suffered a serious leg injury that he will not entirely recover from in 2023> The year is 2023> The football that Cam rising plays in 2023 will be mediocre.

Furthermore, we are trading the current and future performance of our team (112th ranked offense), which is now going into week five, it’s not fall camp anymore guys, don’t think half of you have realize that. For MAYBE half a season of under performance by a guy that will no longer be in the program in 2024. Unlike the guys he’s been stealing reps from all fall.

I genuinely don’t understand how the majority of this board is still in “Cam’s gonna be ready for the opener, trust me on this one;)” mode. I actually agree that he’s better than NJ I even think that if he limps onto the field for OSU then we’ll win, whereas with NJ we probably won’t. But I can also see that that’s our program’s fault. NJ should be more ready and there’s less than 0 excuse at this point.

[Utah]

It’s pretty simple. The P12 it really tough. And Utah is really, really good.

The second Cam can start, you start him. The reality is, we scored 31 vs Weber St and 14 vs UCLA. That isn’t good enough. We need Cam. It’s not bagging on Johnson, he’s been fantastic for what we’ve needed. But we can’t win the PAC-12 with him as our QB…or at least it would take a miracle season.

With our defense, an average year from Cam gives us a great chance to win the PAC-12.

And as far as next year…I don’t care. We have Rose, who at one point was better than Johnson, and Wilson and Johnson.

We will be fine at QB next year and don’t need to worry about it. And honestly, we probably bring in a transfer as well.

We just need to worry about this year. And we need Jackson to ball out, get drafted in the first two rounds so Nate will move to Safety or WR and ball out for us.

[The Miami Ute]

The problem I, and some others, have with the QB position are related to the optics coming out of Camp Utah. What we’ve been seeing over the last couple of weeks is Rising taking up half (or more) of the 1st team practice snaps but then, on Thursday, we’re back to Johnson starting. Personally, I don’t think that’s fair to Nate or a sustainable model. It’s Kyle’s team so he’ll do what he thinks is best but I’m in disagreement with this policy.

[Utah]

I don’t think you are wrong. You are 100% correct. Johnson would be better if we shelved Cam for a month.

BUT, we can’t win the PAC-12 with Johnson. Or, it would take a miracle to win the PAC-12 with Johnson. We can win with an average Cam.

So you have to keep running Cam out there in hopes he can play. With a mediocre Cam, we beat UCLA like a drum. With Johnson, we barely win and almost have 5+ turnovers. We need Cam.

[The Miami Ute]

I don’t disagree with the precept that we can’t win the PAC-12 with Johnson. What I disagree with is the policy of having a guy, who might or might not play during the weekend, take up a significant number of first team snaps during the practice week. Personally, I would wait until Rising tells me he’s definitely ready to go before I’d give him any practice snaps, but that’s just me. I’m a longtime football watcher, in both college and the NFL, and I can’t ever recall a similar situation to this taking place week after week.

[Utah]

This is where bad luck has killed Utah. If Rose hadn’t gotten hurt…who knows where we are now. We might be stressing that Wilson is going to decommit because he knows he will never see the field.

We are just hamstrung by Cam. We need him. Desperately. We need him taking reps so he feels good and wants to play. There is no other way around it. It is a rock and hard place.

Do you give all the reps to Johnson and hope for a miracle and 6-8 wins?

Or do you give all the reps to Cam and hope for a miracle and 10+ wins, knowing that if Cam doesn’t play you probably only win 6-7 games?

I think you have to hope for Cam to figure it out.

[Utah5410]

@miamiUte…I disagree. SC looks bored. ASU was not a test, they barely even tried. They get get exposed against ND and then US. if CR is good to go. I think we have a very good chance. SC is so soft and CW doesn’t like to be hit.. We destroy guys, including our own QB’s liver. You think we are goin to take it easy on CW. He is so soft.

Also we need to win NOW… And against SC, UW especially we will not with NJ.

UO maybe only because of RES (especially at night) yes I am serious.

[The Miami Ute]

ASU was not a test, they barely even tried.

Oh, OK…did they try in their previous three games against lesser competition then? Or did they take those nights off too?

[D T]

Hilarious watching you attempt to prop up an awful ASU team…..There’s a high probability they don’t win another game this year….Hanging around for a while against USC using gimmicks before ultimately getting blown out will prove to be the highlight of their season.

[bopahull]

I respect your opinion and hope to see Cam at the helm as soon as possible. I never advocated kicking him to the curb, but right now we have a young QB that needs to be able to utilize much more of the playbook to have a chance to be successful..
I think Cam pretty much knows the playbook inside out. I understand the need to work on timing but Nate needs that too. If we are giving most or even half the QB1 reps to a player who apparently isn’t ready to play, we are seriously limiting the QB we halve to rely on to do the job.
The play calling has been at best mediocre. Can we expect to beat the better teams we are about to face with half a playbook? According to Whit he has no intention of expanding the playbook further for Nate. I don’t see how they can if they aren’t giving him the needed practice reps.
I know you’re about to say Cam is the man we need in there, I fully agree. Unfortunately I don’t have any way of knowing when he is going to feel he is ready to play. I think until we absolutely know he is going to play, we need to treat our current QB1 like the QB1 and allow Cam to take QB2 reps.

[Utah]

I agree 100% with you. Your logic is spot on. But you have to keep running Cam out there in hopes that something clicks and he is ready to play. We have been so lucky. Johnson fumbled 3 times and had at least two balls that should have been picked off. He just isn’t good enough.

And Barnes is worse than that.

We desperately need Cam to show up. It’s like the Jets. You keep kissing Wilson’s ass, because you are a damn good team and you really, really, really need Wilson to step up. Same with us and Cam. We have to kiss his ass because we need him so bad.

With Johnson, we probably lose vs OSU. We 99% chance lose vs Oregon and USC and UW. And I could easily see us losing vs Colorado, if Colorado is healthy. That is 5 losses. Maybe more.

With an average Cam, we can win all those games…well maybe 1-1 vs Oregon and USC is more realistic. But that’s a borderline playoff team and PAC-12 champ.

And Johnson can’t get good enough to win those games he’d lose. So, it’s Cam or bust.

[bopahull]

I think you’re right that Nate won’t get good enough to carry us to the CCG, but right now he’s all we’ve got. Cam is great but for one reason or another, he feels like he can’t play. I don’t know if that’s a physical or a mental reason, maybe it’s both.
I think we need to start looking at reality a little. Nate for better or worse is our starting QB. he needs all the practice he can get to improve as much as possible. Cam is pretty much a known quantity, he may not come back and be the QB he has been or may even be better. We can’t know until he plays.
One thing I know for certain is he has been our starter for nearly 2 whole seasons. I don’t see him improving much by taking the reps our current starter badly needs. I think Nate will have a better chance of improving with that practice than Cam.
Until Cam is back and ready to play, let him take all the reps QB2 usually gets. With Cam’s experience that should be sufficient practice to keep him fairly sharp.

[Utah]

I think that is where we disagree.

I think you are saying to give Johnson all the reps so we can lose to Oregon, USC, UW, and probably OSU. BUT we might be able to beat Cal, ASU, Arizona and Colorado. Whereas if we don’t give reps to Johnson, we lose to OSU, Oregon, USC, UW, Colorado and maybe Cal and finish with 6 wins.

I think any season with Johnson starting full time sucks. And I’m going to shoot for Rising and put all my eggs in the Rising basket until he doesn’t show up anymore. Because if I give all the reps to Johnson, I go from a 6 win team to a 7 or 8 win team, tops.

But if I give all the reps to Cam, our floor is a 6 win team. BUT, our ceiling is a 10-13 win team.

And that is why I hold onto Cam. And why I don’t give reps to Johnson. We desperately need Cam.

[The Miami Ute]

I guess I just don’t follow your logic. How does giving a large amount of practice reps every single week to a guy who might or might not play make you better? To me, it’s nothing but a distraction. Like I said before, I’ve never seen a situation in professional or college football where a guy that’s not playing is taking up so much practice time with the ones. If Cam comes to me on Sunday and says “I’m ready to go” then he immediately becomes QB1 and gets ALL of the first team practice reps. Until then, in my view, we have to focus on the guy who’s actually physically and mentally ready to play on Saturday.

[2008 National Champ]

Typically the opposite happens. Your starter is dinged up so he only participates in the walk throughs and half speed drills. You let the backup take all the reps to keep everyone else sharp while the starter uses the time to recover.

I’m not sure why Rising can’t take the scout team reps. Better prep for the D and there’s not a chance in hell they breathe hard in his direction. They want him back as much as the rest of us. It’s not like Rising is unclear on how to audible out of Ludwig’s play calls by now.

[The Miami Ute]

That’s what I’m saying. This is Rising’s fifth season with the program. What is he going to learn or improve upon by taking half or more of the first team practice snaps? It just seems so odd to me.

[bopahull]

I am in total agreement with you. I want Cam back as soon as possible. Barring a miracle There is no way Nate is going to do what Cam has and hopefully will do this year.
I’m just saying that in the absence of Cam Rising Nate is our starting QB. Until Cam returns He needs to take starter reps.

[NorthernUte]

Who else thinks that we could’ve scored 3 more touchdowns this week against UCLA if Whitt wasn’t being cautious?
Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not overly concerned about our offense at the moment… if we play like we are right now against Washington or Oregon, then it’s gonna be trouble. But I really think once Whitt gets ahead, he just plays to win. No style points or nothing, just get through that game. That’s why we had a couple possessions or Run, Run, Run, and Punt. I don’t think we have many of those against a team we aren’t already beating. At this moment we are just getting by and I feel like it’s pretty obvious that we could do more, we just don’t need to.
Feel free to thumbs up this or thumbs down it so I can tell what people really think about this. Go Utes!

[2008 National Champ]

The problem with saying Utah could have scored 3 more touchdowns if they wanted to is that there really isn’t any evidence to back that up. Whitt/Ludwig don’t have a magic button that they can push whenever they feel like it or they would have already used it by now.

– They tried the short and intermediate passing game. Johnson was 9-17 with a couple of dimes and a couple of TWP’s. They also saw that UCLA was blitzing every time Johnson showed pass and the O Line wasn’t picking it up. The sack fumble happened because Kump went for a triple-team and the LB went right through that hole.
– They tried their jet sweep and Johnson on the perimeter and got stuffed multiple times.

The only thing that was working was the 2 hole as Jackson and Glover did get some nice runs but when it became apparent that Utah would only try to throw on 3rd and long, there just wasn’t a consistent push. So I’m just not seeing where all of this extra production was going to come from and why the staff would deliberately try to avoid it. The “we sucked because we just didn’t feel like being good today but we could have if we wanted to” doesn’t really make sense to me.

[Tony (admin)]

Forgive my ignorance, but does getting reps with the 2’s help anyone? Seems like we’re only considering the 1’s. Seems like just about any practice is beneficial if someone is coming off an injury and needs “reps” and time to get back in the swing.

[2008 National Champ]

One of the insiders could verify but I seem to remember Whitt stating that during the season the reps were split around 75/20/5 between the QB’s. You still need Barnes to take reps every week until TQWSNBN is back on the field. If Johnson and Barnes are only getting ~40% between them, your game QB1 isn’t getting the reps he needs and you’ve turned your game QB2 into break glass in case of emergency instead of a viable option if needed.

[ORute]

No one is saying ‘prepare him (NJ) for next year’, we’re saying prepare him for this year. Its obvious the offensive game plan is 99% built around Cam. That’s fine, except Cam has yet to play. I think it’s fair to get a QB who is playing, better prepared, just handing off, not expanding the playbook, not getting reps for NJ or any other healthy just seems short sided. (If) Cam comes back, injures himself on the first play and goes out, our game plan for the rest of the season then is handoff up the middle, punt and hope the D can score with pick-6’s? I don’t see this as an either/or, I think we just could have put more into developing a QB who is actually playing

[Utah]

If we give all the reps to Nate, how many wins do we have this year? Best case and worst case?

[ORute]

Again, not saying either/or, all or nothing, just not put all our eggs in one basket or the other. Right now all the offensive eggs are in the Cam basket. Better to develop 2 baskets, because one basket has a hole and no one knows when/if it will be fixed. And yea, imo if we developed and built some schemes around Nate I think we’d win fewer games than with Cam. But how many games have we won with Cam this year? All im saying is building an offense completely around a player who may or may not be back (or back to what he was) doesnt make as much sense as developing another QB while he recuperates

[2008 National Champ]

You’ve got 4 right now with the backups. How many does the other guy have?

At some point you have to win with what you’ve got and to date that hasn’t included a certain somebody. I’m pretty sure that Tafuna, O’Toole or anyone else who’s injured hasn’t been taking the lion’s share of the reps at their positions over the people who are actually playing in the games.

The bigger problem isn’t the reps as much as it is the offense. If the design is such that only one person on the team can run it properly, there needs to be some serious reevaluation going on.

[22Ute22]

Well said. Someone even said something similar a few days ago, and I will rephrase it a bit:

We can’t say “Next Man Up” except for the most important position on the field.

[22Ute22]

Why are you assuming that we want to give Nate all the reps for the rest of the season? No, we wanted NJ to get all the reps last week and this week to prepare him. After OSU, Cam takes over during the bye week, and gets 100% of the QB1 reps for 2 weeks. Play a bad cal team for knocking off the rust, and then get another week of QB1 reps for USC. Why are you acting like Cam needs a bunch of QB1 reps if he won’t play? It’s not like he hasn’t been practicing and throwing balls. He’s a very veteran and experienced QB. He doesn’t need these reps as much as NJ.

[Charlie]

I think we are trying to make sense out of Utah’s current reality without knowing many of the brutal facts. Without seeing practice we don’t know how close if Cam game ready factor and how much it is improving every day. From the outside, it makes sense to me to slide him in when it is to Whitt and Lud’s satisfaction. They could been there already but tried to allow another week if possible, or we could be just short of the goal. Lud is putting together probably 2 game plans, with and without Cam, based more on what he is seeing at practice which is beyond what we see and guess. They are not at all perfect, just magnitudes better than any of us fans. But more important, thay have a mountain of more information. Then there is Cam’s personal desires and opinion which may or may not line up exactly with the coaches. Can’t blame him for putting himself first and also having ideas. I don’t think there is a master plan, rather a best possible plan with daily or even hourly adjustments.

As I look at OSU I feel they present less risk to Cam than did UCLA. OSU is a physical team but that is across the board and in the trenches. I feel Cam’s big risk is DEs and OLBers even though any defender can tackle him. For that reason possibly OSU could be viewed as an easier onramp than UCLA. It also has the advantage of another week. Either way, Oregon and Washington will hunt him like dogs and Cam has a porkchop necklace. He needs to work up to that point so an onramp after the bye week, I feel, is just too close for expectations of success. It would be nice to have time for a partial game and a full game before the USC game starts the rough part of the schedule. I think we can beat OSU and Cal while still discombobulated, but the 3 teams above us require a good runup with Cam. Still, literally anyone that is seeing practice would have a much better feel for the situation.

[Central Coast Ute]

Who said NJ is a better option over CR?

[The Miami Ute]

I don’t think anyone is saying that. What people are asking is why is Rising getting so many practice reps the last couple of weeks and then not playing.

[ryynoo]

Thank you!

[EagleMountainUte]

Show me on the doll where the internet fan board hurt you.

We all are having fun. Criticism isn’t always meant to be taken negatively.

[Ol’ Lefty]

What we won’t have when CR comes back is his aggressive keepers and playmaking abilities running occasionally. What makes that work is his RPO and passes to all receivers including tight ends. So just don’t run Cam. The beavers know who he is but
if he trots out Friday they will have to cover all the bases whether he runs or not. In my opinion we don’t get that with Johnson (yet) and if Cams a little more accurate, spreads the ball around a little bit more I think offense will click a lot better. There must be some optimism in the coaches that Cam will return shortly so they’re preparing for that. We need wins right now and with the schedule ramping up competition wise this could work out very well if we can just beat the beavers Friday. I’m actually glad they are looking at it week by week.

[ORute]

I actually think running was a huge part of CR game and any hinderance to running makes him significantly less effective. Think of how many times the pocket broke down he and just took off for 15-30 yards, stiff-arming DBs. Will he still be doing that? We all hope he does, but for the most part no one will know until he’s facing live bullets. Each week that passes I just think we need to be putting more and more into developing a (backup) QB. What we’re doing now is simply using NJ as a placeholder (no schemes, no expanded playbook, shared reps) based on the assumption that Cam will just come back and plug and play as he was. We all hope that happens, but each week that passes, that becomes less and less likely and therefor the need to be preparing accordingly.

[Author]

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