Complaining about Coach K

[Hal Evans]

It is quite funny to watch the rants to get rid of Coach K. Let me ask a simple question. Which of the players that the Coach has encouraged to leave the last few years do you want him to keep? Tillman who has missed almost the season. Johnson who has averaged about 3 points a game and who you all belly ached about for 2 years? If he had kept them he wouldn’t have the scholarships for the kids that have come in. This team is young and if they stick together will be a force in the next few years. This conference isn’t the one of those we had in the past. Aren’t we just a few years removed from sweet 16? We are never going to be Duke or Kentucky…..we can’t compete in getting those kids….and how many of you want one and dones. Who do you think we will get to come in and coach that is better? If we lose a bunch of these kids next season you might have a case but you are spitting in the wind right now.

[EagleMountainUte]

Calling people’s arguments rants is going to really open their ears to your SINGULAR defense of him. 

Transfers is just one of the many nails he has put in his coffin. I don’t care to repeat or rant about the other points you choose to ignore. 

I have always said if the right hire for the right price is there you move on from him.  

[Utah5410]

Let me ask you a question. What has Larry done to not receive criticism. There is turnover every year at almost every program in college ball. It’s gotten so bad that most of us expect guys to leave.

[chinngiskhaan]

The transfers are not reason I think we (depending on what happens next year) need to move on. You are right, the guys that have left (the important ones anyways) have been nothing special and/or a locker room problem. That isn’t the problem. Part of the problem is that when you constantly have several players transferring, you can’t develop team depth, and that has clearly been an issue with this team.

The real problem with him is that his teams seem to have the same issues every year. Turnovers are a problem on the court every year. When the team is full court pressed it is always a problem for us. Our teams have consistently struggled with getting into the offense early enough to actually get a good shot. I’ve never seen a coach who’s teams so consistently have issues with shot clock violations. Also, many of the bigger recruits we get seem to struggle to thrive in his system. A number of players have seemed to regress throughout their time at Utah, and many others fail to progress in any meaningful way. This last issue may have nothing to do with him, but it is ultimately his responsibility when you have players that look promising as freshmen only to come back as sophomores having not progressed at all, or having inexplicably decreased in confidence and skill for no apparent reason whatsoever.

 

Loveridge, Chapman, Tillman, Kuzma (to a much lesser degree) Gach, Battin, Jayce, Brandon Taylor (he was good but had some major flaws that were seemingly never addressed), Charles Jones Jr…. and that’s not including all the players that have transferred without ever getting a chance to show anything.

On the flipside the list of players that have truly thrived (exceeeded expectations and/or improved in skill and confidence) under Krystowiak is quite short: Delon, Poeltl, Bibbins, Dallin B.. Am I missing anyone?

[Tony (admin)]

The argument isn’t just about transfers. It’s about coaching, or lack there of.

[Anonymous]

Coach Whit said…it’s always on the coaches. You either can’t recruit and/or can’t coach. I couldn’t care less if the entire team transfers every year (hyperbole) as long as the team wins enough and is competitive. Clearly, that’s not the case.

[PlainsUte]

Very true, unlike pro sports where a GM might be controlling the roster and the Head Coach develops the strategy and develops the players, its pretty much all on the Head Coach in college.  He can’t do it all himself, of course, so he has to have well-structured team of leaders with people who excell in each area (recruiting, RETENTION, and developing of players, offensive and defensive strategy, gametime personnel management, clock management, etc), either singly or collectively.

Does Coach Larry K take on too much himself?  Is he too old-school dealing with players?  Does he focus too much on defense and hope the ohfense works out using the best defensive players?   Seems that way.   These are questions for the AD to ask — and demand changes where the Utes have been lacking.

[Utah5410]

☝🏻 This.

[gonzoute]

2018 – 3rd Pac – 17 wins
2017 – 3rd Pac – 23 wins
2016 – 4th Pac – 20 Wins
2015 – 2nd Pac – 27 Wins
2014 – 2nd Pac – 26 Wins
2013 – 8th Pac – 21 Wins
2012 – 10th Pac – 15 Wins
2011 – 11th Pac – 6 Wins

5/8 years 4th place or better in PAC12 and 20+ wins. This year is down but this does not look like failing to me.

[UteThunder]

And how much better would some of those seasons have been if we weren’t constantly turning over half of the roster year after year?

[gonzoute]

Which of the guys that left would have put us higher? Last year we lost Jayce and we improved that spot. Donnie Tillman who was having academic problems and served two suspensions this year. Vante Hendrix would not listen to anyone of coaches. Charles Jones not a Pac-12 level player. Please the transfers are what they are in college basketball. Isn’t just Utah.

[EagleMountainUte]

How much better would they have been with coaches that understood the flow of a game?  It isn’t just about flow. Utah has fine talent on the team right now and is poorly coached. 

[gonzoute]

I do not believe that our whole coaching staff is inept. We have 3 members on that staff that spent much time with Majerus. You really think they don’t know how to coach?

[EagleMountainUte]

You really must not watch them play a lot. I didn’t say inept either I said poorly coach. A lot of emotions around this topic I know but don’t try to exaggerate my position in your own mind. 

[Tony (admin)]

How many championships?  How many tournament appearances? Overall rankings?

[EagleMountainUte]

And the PAC12 is one of the worst Basketball conferences. Results should have been better. 

[UtahFanSir]

The program has gone through three phases. Phase 1: The first four to five years (2011-2015) was evidence of much much better coaching. Toward the end of that period, Utah got some terrific players. The program looked poised to take the next step. Then something happened.

K3 was recruiting the right guys, but many went elsewhere or in a case or two were “bought” by other programs. Phase 2: K3 scrambled for guys. Some of the guys he recruited did not fit the program. After three more years of that, it was obvious that K3 was hitting on only 5 of 8 cylinders.

The financial cost was large. The cost to team cohesion was immense.

Now in 2019-2020, K3 has rebooted, Phase 3. The team is young; talent is there. Next season more good guys are coming it.

But fans are frustrated. Attendance is down. We are prepared for the revolving door again. If that does not happen, then maybe the ship is righted. Maybe K3 has learned something. Maybe the future is bright. Unfortunately, many fans expect the worse.

Part of the issue is the play of the team this year. Even though they are young, its looks like fundamentals are lacking or the team just does not show up for the first half. So fans have several issues identified and are groping for answers. All appear to adhere to the adage that the buck stops with the headman, the coach. Its a reasonable assumption.

[CincyUte]

Great points.  If you consider the (lack of) talent we’ve had the last several years, Utah has actually over-performed.  Until this year, we’ve always finished in the top half of the conference. We’ve always finished better than the pre-season projections.  You absolutely have to credit Larry for that.

This year is a throwaway.  We always knew it would be.  BUt even then, we’ve had some good moments . . . 

Next year we’ll finally have a strong mix of talent and experience.  I’m very excited to see what Coach K can do with that.

[Dante Guardi]

who cares where we finish in the PAC rankings? if were not in the NCAA tournament something is wrong. id take the 8 seed in the PAC 12 tourney and still getting into the dance over the 3 seed in the Pac 12 tourney and going to the NIT (cough cough ASU 2017-18)

[noneyadb]

Red Rocks are #4 and Pac12 regular season champs! 

[UteThunder]

if they stick together

This is the problem. Every year it is “if these guys all come back, we will be so good next year” and then “these guys” leave and we are lead to believe that the new guys are even better and it’s a good thing those other guys left to make room for the new guys and then, once again we’re saying “if these guys all come back, we will be so good next year.”

 

and how many of you want one and dones.

I will take NBA bound one and dones over the one and done transfers LarryK has been running through the program.

[Utesbyfive]

This is the same defeatist bullcrap we hear when we talk about who replaces Whitt. Oh poor us, who will take our green money?

Grow up. Coaching changes happen. We’re a P5 school with a very attractive compensation package to offer. A new coach will come, and the Utes will go on.

[Leonard Bates]

A Venture Capitalist offered me very sage advice early in my career.  When managing people, he said, figure out what single metric defines success and judge them by that.  For Larry it is wins and resulting post season appearances, and by my reckoning, he has failed.  You really don’t need to get into the mechanisms behind the failure, just look at the primary goal.  Larry competes on a level playing field – Utah has amazing facilities, we are members of a major sports conference, the fans are accomodating.  There is no systemic issues keeping the Utes from being a top 20 basketball program.  

So, using this methodology, your question of “Which players…..” is too granular.  Players coming or going doesn’t matter.  Larry is responsible for winning games.  Let’s judge him against his peers based on that.

[EagleMountainUte]

Clearly it wasn’t a level playing field in recruiting though. Teams were paying players specifically athletes that Utah recruited long and hard for. 

[PlainsUte]

and the VC’s metric was “how much profit does it bring in?”?    Sometimes it helps to understand the root cause — if the Utes bring in someone else, but they do X, Y and Z the same way Larry K does, should we expect a different result?

[CincyUte]

That’s bad advice.

[Charlie]

Given the point we are at with Larry’s contract, the number of minutes played by underclassmen, the class coming in next year – the current moment is not a review point. I have questions as well but I try to wait for a point of opportunity that realistically offers a chance for change. I would prefer to wring my hands at that point rather than every day up to that point. Still, a warning: I tend to be an optimist.

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