Complete failure of HS running back recruiting

[chinngiskhaan]

NOTE: This is not so much about Ganther as he is new and his guys are all far too young to judge.

I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of years now, and a recent post about whether our reputation for player development is legit got me thinking. Bernard is BY FAR our best RB recruited out of high school currently on the team, and he was recruited in 2019. TWO THOUSAND NINETEEN! The only high school recruit RB we have signed since then that comes close is Ty Jordan. Every high school recruit since Ty has been mediocre or worse. For a team that has built a reputation for heavily leaning on its running game and putting backs into the NFL, this is unacceptable. The only reason we even have Bernard this year is because he got hurt last year. Do you realize how terrible we would be without him?

Even including transfers our RB recruiting has not been good.

I have no evidence to prove this, but I feel like we got into the habit of just going after 4-star guys instead of looking at actual fit and talent.

There is no excuse for Utah mf-ing state having a better RB than us.

[stbone]

In recent history, most of our success with RB has been via the transfer portal.

Devonte Booker – Transfer
Joe Williams – Transfer
Tavion Thomas – Transfer
JJ – Transfer

Ty Jordan – Recruit
Zack Moss – Recruit
Micah Bernard – Recruit

[Ute Dub]

I do wish we still had the RB coach that went to USC and then to the NFL. What was his name? Kiel McDonald.

[2008 National Champ]

John White IV was also a transfer so you can go back to the beginning of P5 play. Probably even farther. Didn’t Matt Asiata go JC first?

[Hellhound152]

Marty Johnson, Ganther, Poston (whoof), Asiata, White, Poole, Booker, Shyne. All JC transfers except Poston who came from SC. That takes you back to 2000.

Eddie Wide, Darrell Mack, Lucky Radley, Susuan Shakerin, Devin Brumfield, Henry Cole, TJ Green, Jaylon Glover have all been HS recruits that played a memorable amount of snaps during the “post McBride era”

[Ute Dub]

Good post. I’m still crying over Ty Jordan. Had he stayed in school 4-5 years he would have been with Utah for 2024, right?

[Utesbyfive]

With him, we win both Rose Bowls, or make the CFP.

[UteBacker]

I’m not one to complain about the coaches, but it seems like we are awfully arrogant about our ability to run it up the middle. I can’t help but think being a running back at Utah has become a little more difficult because you’re facing stacked boxes the whole game.

[Hellhound152]

Take me back to a time where Utah running backs were “not running against a stacked box” according to most of the people on this board the only consistent thing about the Utah program since 2009 is running inside zone 70% of the plays regardless of OC or QB situation…

Having more success with a transfer running back is not unique to Utah, it has always been a thing across college football for decades. Even the blue bloods always had a “JC transfer” tailback. We talk about how hard it is for quarterbacks to adapt to the changing game. I would argue running back is as difficult but just for different reasons. It might be more difficult to look at a dominant HS running back and project the future than a QB.

[Rick Walker]

Agreed, one of the hard things about recruiting running backs out of high school is it can be hard to tell when they’re genuinely strong runners or just more athletic than all the high school players around them. Transfers are usually proven since they’ve already played college ball.

[Hellhound152]

Running backs are just weird in general. Issues with grades, personality stuff, criminal history, late body development, simply overlooked in High School. It seems to be the ultimate “talent trumps all” situation which is why I think there were so many transfer back pre-portal, and post portal it is even more of a wild west deal.

Zack Moss was a real outlier. HS recruit, character guy, total pro on and off the field, and loyal.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

All good points. Some RBs get bigger and stronger after high school. I had a cousin in Denver that was the #1 running back recruit in the old big12. He could have gone to any college out of high school. He went to CU to be close to home. Never played a down. He told me the speed of the defense was unreal and he wasnt big enough to take the hits. He was hurt for two years then retired from football.

[22Ute22]

I think the most egregious thing about recruiting the RB position has been the size. Why in the world did they sign Stanley and Randle if they are such light players with WR/DB builds? Stanley is at least extremely fast and can be used as a WR/RB hybrid, but he will never be a true bellcow RB.

[Hellhound152]

What is a 185 lb. High School senior? Is he a 205 Lb. freshmen after a summer in the weight room and proper nutrition, or is he a 185 Lb. guy moving to defensive back after a summer in the weight room and proper nutrition? How about the 205 lb. High School senior? Is he a 220 Lb. butterball when he arrives on campus after being told how good he is and has to drop 15 Lb. over the summer? Or is he actually a grown man?

High School recruiting is all about projection. Whitmore was the second coming of Moss (except he was too slow and couldn’t run over college defenders) Glover was a day one starter (except in college he goes down if he gets breathed on). As long as Utah has a 1k yard back on the roster at a given time I couldn’t give 2 s*^&% how they got here. And barring injury issues, the squad has done just that every year since 2014.

The Hub seems to have devolved to complaining about a weed in the flower bed when the real issue is that the lawn is a foot and a half long.

[chinngiskhaan]

My post wasn’t about the staff’s ability to pull rabbits out of the hat and cobble together serviceable RB rooms through the portal and recruiting QBs that can’t throw hoping they will switch to RB. My post was about HS RB recruiting failures. I’m not arguing that our running game has been bad (it has been good enough, but not much beyond that). I’m simply stating that I think it is crazy that we haven’t done a better job of recruiting HS running backs. I’m not a recruiting expert by any stretch, but it seems like we are far worse at it than we should be given our team’s reputation.

[utefansince79]

As 2020 didn’t count for eligibility, Ty potentially would have been a senior this season, but also quite possible he would be playing on Sunday by now.

[2008 National Champ]

He would have first been eligible for the draft after the 2022 season. If his promise showed out to be Booker level, he’d have been gone then. If he was still on the team long enough to finish out his eligibility we’d probably be calling him Khalil Tate jr. Incredible introduction that couldn’t be sustained

[Jim Vanderhoof]

I think the consensus of all the posts. It’s hard to project a high school running back if they are under sized for college. Portal has more developed players but can have more issues. Recruit and fill in when necessary with the portal. If you have $$ the portal can be a good source for a proven commodity. Development = more $$ not loyalty. Ask JJ.

[2008 National Champ]

For me, the best attribute a HS RB can have is the ability to avoid contact. Any truly talented RB can shrug off HS tacklers but kids whose whole game is based on running through someone don’t tend to go very far when they have to move up to defenders with equal skill.

But show me a mini Barry Sanders who never allows anyone to get a clean shot on him while constantly keeping his own body under control? That will translate at the next level. And it doesn’t matter if you are 170 or 250. If they can’t touch you they can’t tackle you.

[Hellhound152]

There is a lot of truth to that, but it is also how they “avoid contact.” You watch tape on some of these guys that just simply keep bouncing outside until they can outrun everyone. Well, everyone is High School is a whip lb running a 5 second 40 and a strong safety running a 4.8 with a tail wind. The thing that was interesting about Moss and Jordan’s high school highlight tapes is they had the vision and feel to cut north and south at the right time rather than just beating slower players to the corner on every play.

I was too young to actually see college Barry Sanders but Reggie Bush was probably the only back I watched play in college like he was still in High School because he was that talented. All of the others, and we have watched some guys that became great pro’s come through RES over the years, played the position fundamentally sound, meaning they framed the play pre-snap, had vision for gaps and cutback lanes, and had the right combination of speed and power.

[2008 National Champ]

I lived in Kansas for a few years and worked with the “other” all-state RB Sander’s senior year. They were both on the Kansas team for the Kansas-Oklahoma all star game and he showed me the tape once. HS, College and even the pros he did the exact same things and made everyone else on the field look like amateurs. In my prime I don’t think I could have taken on a team of 6 year-olds and made them look as silly as Barry made pro defenders look. Best back in the history of the game in my opinion.

Bush is another great example. Heck, in middle school we had a kid who was afraid of contact, the smallest on the team but also the best natural athlete on the team. Coach moved him to running back the last game of the season and he scored 3 long TD’s without ever getting touched. You can teach most people to run faster, get them bigger and stronger, teach them better techniques. But there also some who just have something that can’t be taught. Covey was that kind of player.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

I respectfully disagree. You can’t just run over people or avoid all contact. You need both. Sanders was 5’8 200 lbs in college and could avoid hits break arm tackles and run for power if needed. Short powerful legs made it hard to tackle him.

Zach Moss and Booker could do both. Bernard at 200lbs has surprised everyone with his power and ability to avoid hits. The rest of the RBs have speed but can’t make people miss or break arm tackles. Jeanty for BSU is 5’9 215 and run for power or elude tacklers. I want both in a back.

[2008 National Champ]

I said “best” not only. Give me two RB’s that appear roughly equal in all other aspects and I want the one the defenders are never able to square up on.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Who doesn’t? Sanders is an anomaly. Gale Sayers was equally gifted. I was a Packer fan and still rooted for Sayers because he was so fun to watch. In the 80’s I went to a card show and Sayers was signing autographs. He finished and was waiting for his ride to the airport. I was just standing there and he came up and started asking about sports cards. I ended spending an hour walking around the show looking at cards with him. Great memory.

[2008 National Champ]

Sayers is before my time. Dorsett is probably the first great back that I would remember. I saw OJ but only his San Francisco year and Franco Harris was on the tail end of his career by the time I started watching football and understanding it.

As a kid, my parents would get me those anthology sports books that would be devoted to 8-10 players and one of them featured Sayers. Rough paraphrase but the quote I remember was that he could fake 3 people out while running in a straight line.

You’re right, the top players will have most, if not all, of the attributes we all look for. I probably could have picked a better example than the guy I think is the best of all time when trying to come up with the single attribute I value most in a back.

[UM4G]

Yet another reason I want Brian Johnson, he spent some time at UF so I have to assume he built some local recruiting ties, would love to tap that same Florida pipeline Huntley & Moss came from.

[RedUte14]

whenever you post, i just feel dumbfounded

[chinngiskhaan]

do you disagree with anything I said? If so, please share.

[SOWhat]

I agree on most of what was said, but,I didn’t hear anything about the O-line up to par. If you have a all league RB and the O-line isn’t playing well you’ll end up with a mediocre running game. I think the entire offense is not playing up to where it was hoped for. If it weren’t for the defense holding down the opponents scoring we might have lost one or two more games. Here we are with a struggling offense and a defense getting tired in the fourth quarter. Let’s hope the coaches gets better play from both the O and the D. Otherwise it’s going a long rest of the season.

[jshame17]

I still think Ganther just doesn’t have it.
We’ve always put together a decent RB room that could produce, even behind questionable o-line play.

Not this year. The room is getting empty and they have floated LBs over to help.

This is a Q problem.

[chinngiskhaan]

It remains to be seen whether Ganther has it or not. Kind of seems like not at this point, but the jury is still out on most of his guys. Give him another year to figure it out.

[AZUTE]

2024 – Projected RB room
Bernard
Mitchell
Randle
Glover
Woods
Stanley

That’s a lot of talent

2024 – actual RB room
Bernard MVP
Mitchell injured
Randle move to CB
Glover attitude DNP redshirt
Woods injured
Stanley misused by Lud
Andrews moved back to LB

A lot of things here are out of the Coaches control.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Not one power back on the list. Bernard has been amazing and exceeded all expectations. Mitchell still early to tell but I don’t see anything that stands out. Stanley is fast but that’s it. Randle Glover Vincent meh and Woods (TBD). For a team that claims to be physical and likes to run the ball and wear defenses down not so good. Throw JJ in with Bernard and we don’t lose to AU or ASU. Damn NIL anyway.

[AZUTE]

Because 225lb power backs grow on trees.

Utah tried in the portal but they wanted too much NIL.

You can’t be too harsh on Mitchell when he’s been hurt most of the season. He showed flashes early on before the ankle injury.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Your comment that’s a lot of talent isn’t true. We had a 230 lb running back but couldn’t pay him enough. If he would have stayed that would be a lot of talent. I thought the addition of Woods and Mitchell adding a few lbs we would be good. Hasn’t panned out. Mitchell is just a freshman so give him the benefit. At this point he is average at best. Other than Bernard no one else stands out.

[chinngiskhaan]

A lot of talent? Nah. A lot of 4 star guys that should not have been 4 star guys IMO. Glover is one of the worst running backs I’ve ever seen in college. Randle was so bad that he couldn’t beat out Glover and was moved to DB. Stanley has only been used for one thing effectively, everything else they’ve tried with him has been a failure.

That list of names is a lot of talent if you look at recruiting rankings only and completely ignore output. The only one that has done anything consistently positive on the field is Bernard.

The jury is still out on Stanley and Mitchell. I’ll give you that, but considering the fact that they were in competition with two hand touch Glover for touches, they must not be all that good.

[Red Rhino]

The biggest quandaries for me are:

1. Given our physical pound it down your throat system, why are we recruiting so many scat backs?

2. Given the style of offense, it seems as if it should be an easy sell to bring in top rated running backs every year. I’m a little surprised we haven’t pulled a off a 5* running back yet.

[chinngiskhaan]

We have to have enough NIL money to get 1 really good back. I just have to believe that $ is out there somewhere. If it isn’t, we are screwed as a program.

[SteelUte]

I’m starting to realize that you tend to be a bit pessimistic-
So your saying this is what our room should look like?:

Ollie Gordon Ok. St. (2023 version)
Ashton Jeanty Boise st.
Kaleb Johnson Iowa
Cam Skattebo Asu
Micah Bernard UofU
How could we miss on those guys?!
Do you recognize, that other schools are out there recruiting also? We can’t snatch all the gem recruits from Oregon, USC, Ohio St, and all the SEC schools.
If you want to say our QB recruiting has been spotty, I’d agree. It’s probably Whitt’s Achilles heel. But RB? I would say look at the history of this program. That is year after year one of our best positions. Ty Jordan, Zak Moss, Devonte Booker, Tavion Thomas, John White 14th, Jamal Anderson, Mike Anderson, Jaquinden Jackson(do you want to give them credit for converting him to RB? I’m sure he would), Joe Williams, Sione Vaki, MICAH BERNARD- I give the benefit of the doubt to this coach and his staff- I don’t worry about the D line and the running back.

[chinngiskhaan]

Did you even read my post? WTF do Gordon, Jeanty, Johnson, or Skattebo have to do with this? The only RB I even mentioned was the one that plays for Utah State. Booker, Thomas, White, and Jackson don’t factor into this conversation in the slightest. They are all transfers. This is about HIGH SCHOOL (that’s the one that comes before college, you can’t transfer from high school to college) running back recruiting. The only players that count in this conversation are high school players that were recruited by, and commmitted to Utah, to play RB.

Out of your list of guys (that goes waaaaay further back than is even remotely relevant to the current UofU football program) that leaves Jordan, Moss, and Bernard.

Bernard was the most recent recruit out of those three, and he was recruited in 2019.

If you want to start a different discussion about how good we are at finding transfers and guys at other positions to make up for s**tty high school RB recruiting, go ahead. This is not that discussion.

All you’ve proven by listing all the transfers we’ve used over the years is that our HS RB recruiting woes go back further than I thought.

[Red Rhino]

As mentioned above, many of those have been transfer RB’s. I’m talking about recruits. Yes, it is not likely that we will be able to recruit a stacked RB room like your list, but we should have a highly ranked RB in every recruiting class, or at least every other recruiting class. Yes other schools are recruiting, but most schools are pass first and don’t center their offenses around the run. If I’m a running back, Utah would look really attractive to me.

Also, I do struggle with pessimism in my sport fandom. I have been a Utah fan and Jazz fan since the early 80’s. Both the Utes and the Jazz have been good enough throughout the years that I have gotten my hopes up almost every year and my hopes crushed almost every year. I admit I have become a little pessimistic in efforts to protect myself against more pain. If you expect the worst, then you will be pleasantly surprised when the worst doesn’t happen. I think I need sports therapy. 🙂

[Jim Vanderhoof]

I agree Steel if JJ would have stayed or should I say if we would have payed him to stay we wouldn’t be having this conversation. JJ and Bernard backfield would be unreal. Again damn NIL.

[chinngiskhaan]

I would still be having this conversation. This isn’t a conversation about the RB room in general. This is a conversation about HIGH SCHOOL RB recruiting not being good enough. Jackson’s presence on our team doesn’t change that, he was a transfer, and he was a QB recruit.

[Hellhound152]

Looking at the list of guys since 2001, I think there is a lot of truth to Chingis original post. I also can look at the list and tell you that there seems to be a real drop off after Kiel MacDonald left. Bernard was a MacDonald recruit and Glover was the last MacDonald high school recruit. What I do know, is there seemed to be a lot more promising HS recruits under his watch and a lot more attrition with guys leaving the program due to lack of playing time. To Chingis point, Ganther has not seemed to bring in the same level of guys from the high school level and this is the 3rd season where one of his guys should be primed to be the next great Utah back. I don’t know if that guy is on the roster or not. What I also know is that he did not handle the TT situation great (not sure anyone could have). Last year I think he got dealt a bad hand with the injury to Bernard and the Vaki revelation covered a ton of warts.

I don’t really know how to factor the skill recruiting while Erickson was here because he seemed to have a “little black book” full of highly skilled but flawed players from all over the country, man I miss that.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

I can see what you’re saying about high school recruiting. I base my opinions on results. As pointed out above seems we have had better luck with transfers. With the portal you dont need to depend on high school recruits that aren’t ready to play yet. Look at our roster now. Mitchell Glover Randle Stanley Bernard all high school recruits. Bernard has blossomed this year and the others are still a work in progress. JJ would have been our top back (transfer). Bottom line you recruit and use the portal both. 5* want 5* money and there aren’t many out there. We are still small potatoes to the blue bloods. They offer a bigger stage. Picking up a disgruntled 5* from a big school is our best chance.

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