Facemask Argument

[TBone]

I want to move past the BYU game already. But yesterday I engaged in a conversation, and the argument came up again that the holding call was a make up call for the faux facemask on Rose in the first half that resulted in a touchdown. My argument was that is a different type of penalty, it is clear that the angle the ref had it appeared to be a facemask, whereas the hold was certainly a hold but not something that should have been called in that moment. He countered that the hold altered the route the receiver was running and Retzlaff would have thrown the ball in his direction if he hadn’t been held. To which I argue that Retzlaff should have thrown the ball if he could, instead he was too occupied by Vanfillinger and was getting sacked, the hold didn’t impact the outcome of that play. We all could go round and round on this argument and I realize it is all in vain, but I am wondering can anyone come up with a clip of a hold or block in the back on the kick return in the first half? (That play should have been called back or was it a clean return?)

[2008 National Champ]

It was nice going a day without arguing over something that can’t be changed. And makeup calls aren’t really a thing in football. It’s a nice conspiracy theory but the facemask was in the first half and Vaughn’s hold was in the last 2 minutes of the game. Too much leverage on Vaughn’s call to be a makeup.

Anyway, it took about 12 seconds to google BYU Kickoff Return TD and choose the below. The “block in the back” you are looking for is at the 27 second mark. And it is completely subjective based on whether you believe the engagement of the block was legal and by the time it comes into frame the BYU player has so thoroughly defeated the Utah defender that he is finishing off the engagement by pushing him in the back.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Missed calls and bad calls are just part of the game. Good teams find ways to win and bad teams find ways to lose. Call it karma or luck the score at the end of the game is all that matters. Blaming the refs or the Big12 is ridiculous. Get a first down or make the interception and it’s game over. If the refs don’t make the holding call TDS would be going crazy instead of us.

[EagleMountainUte]

The amount of things that rolled TSPP way in that game was crazy. The fumble that bounced back right into his hands. The other fumble rolling away just enough for Utah to not recover.
I think the conversion that lead to the eventual TSPP fg win was even tipped and went to the wrong WR. The stopping of the clock after the first down. Clock just stops at 59.

You add it all up and the conclusion I come to was that Utah was outcoached again. In the final 2-3 minutes especially. Add in the no calls and all that s**t. All of the other losses demonstrated that same thing. The little tantrum by the AD and Whitt show it is that way as well.

[NarfUte]

BYU has been ‘lucky’ all year (Just like Utah was in 2008, can’t go undefeated without luck)

They’ve been on the “lucky” side of the net success rate most of their games. Meaning, they have won lots of games they should have lost. Here are 4 games where they’ve had a super negative net success rate and won: Utah, OSU, KSU, Baylor

https://www.twitter.com/statsowar/status/1855977930800935403

https://www.twitter.com/statsowar/status/1848386516495585685

https://www.twitter.com/statsowar/status/1840753435530166658

https://www.twitter.com/statsowar/status/1838210854271295897

NET SUCCESS RATE: Percent of plays with EPA > 0 on offense – Percent of plays with EPA > 0 on defense.

All net success rate does is strip out some noise and present a view of how two teams compared in the down to down business of moving the football.

“Games are won and lost with explosives, special teams, turnovers, etc, and looking at net success rate just shows us how close the margins were.

It’s a good diagnostic to go back and look at a game and learn something:
• Positive net success rate and lost? Let’s identify what went wrong – were those decisive plays sustainable/likely to carry over into future performance?
• Huge net success rate and didn’t win by much? Where might you have failed to take advantage of good situations or made mistakes on drives that altered the score? What does that tell us about going forward?
• Super even net success rate? Let’s look at the weird plays! What does that tell us about the relative strength of the two teams and how they might perform going forward?”

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Last year TDS lost 5 in a row and didn’t get the bounces. This year we have lost 5 in a row and haven’t got the bounces.So much parity in college football other than the blue bloods anyone can win on a given day. You can’t win if you can’t score. I hope Scalley takes over and goes all in on a new offense.

[Tony (admin)]

I think the best way forward is to not engage zoobs. It’s like arguing politics.

[UteFrancais]

They seem like the sibling who knows how to annoy you, but will eventually stop if you ignore them and don’t give the reaction they’re looking for. Sadly, there’s enough Utah fans who give in (understandably) that I think the zoobs will never shut up.

[Utah]

It doesn’t matter.

If Whitt doesn’t take his foot off the gas like he does every single time we play BYU, we win. We have so many games where we are up two scores in the fourth quarter vs BYU and Whitt relaxes and tries to run the clock out and the game is way closer than it should be.

Well, it bit Whitt in the ass this time.

That’s it. Calls, refs, whatever. This loss is 100% on Whitt.

[Tony (admin)]

Totally agree. Once again, any offensive score in the 2nd half and we likely win. Even a damn safety.

[Author]

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