I’m not in the fire Whitt camp by any means, but…

[iamthepreacher]

Folks need to stop with the excuses of how Whitt is in such a tough spot when it comes to recuiting to the U. Why is recruiting a kid to come play in Salt Lake City more difficult than getting a kid to come to Pullman, WA?

Is location a factor in recruiting? Sure it is. Are the school’s football tradition and brand a factor in recruiting? Sure they are. But if you put the right product on the field, recruits will come. Mike Leach is proof of that.

Just my opinion, but we have a pretty high ceiling when it comes to recruiting, and we’re no where near that ceiling yet. Winning–and putting an impressive product on the field (especially on offense)–will change that.

[ladyinred]

I agree with you that slc should be easier to recruit to than Pullman and a few other places in the pac 12, but certainly slc is probably still toward the bottom as far as destinations in the pac 12.

I think another problem is that Utah doesn’t pay assistants as highly as other schools. So it’s more difficult for him to find and retain quality staff.

I am a fan of Whit, but I will say that the knock on him is not keeping an OC for more than one season. We are currently seeing the result of having new personnel run a new scheme and it is not always pretty. I hope no one gets fired after this season – that would not be the answer. We have the opportunity to watch this develop into something great next year, but I wish Whit would’ve done this sooner.

[Utah]

Utah actually pays it’s assistants well. I do believe both coordinators are top 25 in pay in the country (at least they were when Kalani and Erickson were here) and Utah was willing to pay Kalani $800,000 per year. 

I agree about the offense. It is coming together. To change things up would be foolish. 

[Tony (admin)]

I think some factors involve the local predominant culture, and the fact that it is damn cold here.  The cold is one reason why they built a tunnel from the basektball facility to the Huntsman.  If I’m not from SLC, I’m not white, I’m not mormon, and I’m not used to the cold, SLC wouldn’t seem terribly attractive.

[iamthepreacher]

Pullman is a very small, cold weather city that is predominantly white. Keep in mind that Salt Lake County is 30 times the size of Pullman.

I think the cultural issues you’re referring to are things that the fans who live here may experience much more than the players. Keep in mind that athletes generally hang out with other members of the team, and other college students. In fact, I’ve never heard anything but great things about the culture our players experience while they’re playing for us.

I still think it’s ok for us to expect to bring in recruits that are at least as good as what WSU brings in.

[shakeitsugaree]

This is not meant to offend … but, the Mormon factor is a bigger deal than many want to acknowledge.

I say this based on the perception of people I have met over the years in a professional context. Most people who are unfamiliar with Mormonism have a great deal of negativity towards the religion, people and culture. Warranted or not, it’s true.

I have had countless conversations with people trying to convince them that Utah, and SLC specifically, is not a terrible place to live where you can’t get a drink and will be stoned for having sex. Even other religious people seem to dislike Mormons.

These attitudes are more powerful than the cold, the quality of facilities, the revolving door at OC, etc.

Not sure what the solution is, but I think this is the biggest hurdle to recruiting.

[ladyinred]

I’ve had the exact same experience, both in the US and abroad. Mormonism is met with mostly negativity in my experience, and mention of SLC always conjures up mormonism. (Even though SLC is really no longer very Mormon lol).

I’d be willing to bet the culture is a bigger factor than the snow.

[UteFanatic]

To shakeitsugaree:

I am not Mormon and you are spot on.  I was born and raised in Utah so I understand and have grown accustomed to the culture here, but people from outside of Utah don’t see the culture here as a positive thing at all.  

Here is another sobering reality for the future of Utah recruiting: 

The country as a whole is becoming more progressive/liberal and the Mormon culture lives in the stone age when it comes to social beliefs (LGBT intolerant, patriarchial culture, etc) and it will be much more difficult to recruit kids from the liberal west coast as the decades wear on.

The Jazz have the same problem of not being able to retain top NBA talent.  It’s a Utah thing and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

[ragtownute]

Thumbs down from all the bubble folks. 

[Virginia Ute]

Yep. I think it’s the perception, whether deserved or not, that you can’t have a good time in slc and that the people here are too conservative/Weird. 

[Utah]

Everything that everyone has said above is 100% true. Mormonism isn’t some light on a hill that everyone in the world looks up to like we are led to believe in sunday school. Most people don’t look at us and wonder, “wow, that person is so well put together and such an amazing person, I wish could be more like them!”

It’s more like, “my goodness, that person is so freaking weird. I wish they’d let me drink in silence, let me watch the ballgame and quit talking about BYU.”

Another thing that a lot won’t want to bring up, but it is very, very real is when a lot of these kids’ parents were younger, BYU/the Mormon Church was very racist. I know that if I was AA and I grew up as a kid with all the priesthood/BYU football/racist policies, I’d be very, very, very leerie about sending my kid into SLC. 

Again, I’m not saying that it is this way now, but perception is reality, and perception of Utah is not good. 

Like Whitt said, his hardest job is getting a kid and parents to actually come and visit Utah. If he can get that, we have a chance. 

[RiseasUtes]

Mike Leach is 38-36 at Washington St, KW is 109-55 so not sure what your Leach argument is.  KW isn’t more successful this year, but has been more successful than Leach in the Pac12 for quite a few years.  Pullman has similar issues recruiting as Utah has.  Outside of Meyer who has had more success at Utah than KW?  McBride never had an undefeated season or got ranked in the top 5.  And we were a garbage program for the 20+ years before him.  

[Puget Ute]

Our AD totally gave up on football in the early 70s and focused on basketball.  That carried through until the late 80s.  It has taken decades to build up to where we are now.

 

Colorado did something similar in the early 90s.  THe legislature cut funding, etc.  They went from winning the national championship in the early 90s wth multiple trips to big bowl games,  to scandal after scandal, to 2+ decades of mediocrity (with one Big 12 championship in 2001 and one trip to the PAC-12 CCG in 2016). LOTS of s**tty football in between.

[Uterider]

KW is 25-29 in the Pac since joining through last season. So make it 27-34 now. Not stellar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_Utes_football_seasons

[iamthepreacher]

It took Leach a few years to get going but he’s strung together a few good seasons in a row. His QB now has the most touchdowns of any QB in conference history. Impressive stuff to be pulling off in Pullman, especially given WSU’s football history.

[RiseasUtes]

So kind of like how KW went 9-4, 10-3, and 9-4 the 3 seasons prior to this one?  And last year we were a foot(Cal game) and an inch(Oregon game) away from going 11-2.  Our teams are competing in all our games.  I will give you that KW needs to find a QB or system that can play O better because we could have been in the Rose bowl once or twice if we had above average QB play the last 3 years.

[Utahute72]

I think de-coupling completely from BYU would help our recruiting more than most realize.

[shakeitsugaree]

True, which is why we should never play them again

[Tony (admin)]

Make it so.

[TexanUte]

First of all the recruiting argument is a bit of a straw man argument – Utes were about as talented as any group in the country last year as evidenced by NFL scouting but failed to fully capitalize on the talent. Part of it was not having a QB the caliber of the rest of team. Had last years talent phased with a QB like Alex Smith (somehow we tricked him to come to a cold weather town) this team would have easily won the Pac 12.
Excuses excuses excuses. Perhaps this coaching staff is stale

[Rick]

We didn’t trick Alex.  He was not highly recruited out of high school.  Same argument for missing out on Luke Faulk.  He had no scholarships and walked on a WASU.

[EagleMountainUte]

Smith was overlooked because of his RB who was other worldly and the parents were getting paid.

[TexanUte]

I know it was tongue in cheek – of course we can recruit a QB. The bottom line is the whole organization is not getting it done. My definition of getting it done is playing in one conference championship game in the first decade of joining then repeating at least once every 5 or 6 years.

[Rick]

I was p**sed that we lost the game but considering the following factors, we were lucky to be in the game at all:

We are very young.  We start and/or play 22 players that are freshmen or sophomores.

We are injured.  We played without our best WR or RG on offense.  On defense we were without Fitts, Hansen, Tautioli, Blair, Hughes, Blackmon and we were within 8 points at the end.

We have a new OC and he needs time to implement his scheme and recruit the right players to fit his scheme.

WASU is a very good team.  I think they will win the Apple Cup this year and go to the conference championship.

4 of our 5 offensive linemen from last year got drafted and are playing in the NFL.

 

[TexanUte]

Those are all good points but makes the argument we should have done more last year than we did.
We will still be young next year
The OC will still be relatively new
His recruits by definition will still be young and then when they mature Fitts Hansen et al will all be gone then we will be saying the defense is young and the DC is new yadi yadi yada
Never ends…
I actually look back fondly at the Mountain West days where at least we had some plausible deniability around the ability to play with the big boys and made the 2004 and 2008 seasons so joyous. Cant even win the stinking South in 7 seasons trying. Oh well better luck next year I suppose.. Oh wait we will be too young

[ironman1315]

How long did it take all the various entities in the PAC-12 to win anything of significance in either the Pac-10 or PAC-12. Last I checked it took ASU 20 years and AZ 40 years.

[Puget Ute]

ASU went to the Rose Bowl 2 times (1-1, last trip in 1997).
Arizona has never gone to the Rose Bowl.
Obviously, a trip to the Rose Bowl is not the defining feature of a significant season, but it is something.

[TexanUte]

Nah – in the current construct of the PAC 12 (the only one I care about) it took all teams less than 6 seasons to win the South at least once except Utah of course. Even stinking Colorado. That’s what sticks with me more than anything. I would have bet my house that Utes would win the Pac 12 south before the buffaloes when we went to the two 6 team divisions and we joined along with Colorado. Ouch

[ironman1315]

So you’re saying that Utah, just invited to the club, should be able to do what 5 other teams with long P5 histories in about half a decade wjen at least four of those years were all about just building depth to compete? Sure. Seems legit.

[ladyinred]

This is not true. The Arizona schools were invited to the pac in 1978. ASU won first in 1986, and it took until 1993 for Arizona. So Utah is still on schedule with other schools that have joined. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison for CU because they came to the pac from another p5.

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