Let’s not pretend that this team was awesome before the RB game

[chinngiskhaan]

We backed into the CCG. We lost three games before the RB, and played bad football in all of them. We played 6 games against teams with better talent than us, and we lost 4 of those games (including the Rose Bowl). We are improving, but we weren’t good enough to win that game. In hindsight, it’s really quite obvious.

This team was never great, only good… and that’s just fine with me. Good season. Had both teams been completely healthy we may have had a shot.

[Utah]

We were down our #1 RB, our #1 and #2 TE’s (who were also our #1 and #2 receivers). We were down our top DE and CB. Then once Rising went down, we were sunk.

We also, for some reason, keep playing our best RB in a backup role. That I don’t understand.

And then Scalley…the dude forgot he had a game or something. Sheesh. Penn St made adjustments at halftime and just whipped us. Man, that was a rough 3-4 drives from Penn St.

Ugh. Like you said, we limped into the game and Penn St took it to us. Hats off to them. Hopefully everyone comes back and we can try again next fall.

If Rising leaves…we are in a world of hurt. lol.

[EagleMountainUte]

The plan to utilize Bernard over JJ is just one of the many things I will never understand. This was by far the worst schemed game Ludwig has ever done.

[The Miami Ute]

Eagle the scheme sucked but I seem to remember Ludwig drawing up some doozies in his first stint with the Utes.

[Yergensen]

Urban legend re: Sugar Bowl was Brian Johnson was calling that game on field. Ludwig doesn’t seem to get a lot of credit for that game. In any case, Ludwig has been our best OC since Chow imo. However, he has his warts for sure and in certain games (see Oregon, Penn St), his personnel and play decisions can be stupefying.

[2008 National Champ]

Interesting. That Sugar Bowl scheme is the one that I’ve absolutely given Ludwig credit for which is why I’ve been so disappointed in what he rolls out for the big games since he came back. Even though it didn’t amount to a lot of yards, he kept running enough to force Alabama to defend it which opened up the quick passing game that ultimately left them dumbfounded.

Contrast that to 2020 where Utah could do next to nothing off his scripted plays. Granted, on a week to week basis, you aren’t going to always to come out on fire but he had a month to put his plan together for the Rose Bowl. I just didn’t see the attempt to force Penn State defend the whole field which allowed them to slowly bring people closer to the line of scrimmage and eventually turn up the heat.

[EagleMountainUte]

Yeah Ludwig should throw away every reverse play ever. Triple reverse run 40 yards to get 3. Pull my hair out.

[UteFanatic]

No one is saying the team was awesome. They are a solid team, but had deficiencies. Especially in road games. That is something the coaching staff really needs to work on. For some reason, Utah has become an truly awful road team the last few years.

And just stop with the “backed into the CCG” nonsense. No, they didn’t. They won the necessary games against the necessary opponents to get there.

[RoboUte]

It’s pretty disingenuous to ignore the fact that after we lost to Oregon we were relying on multiple outcomes that had nothing to do with us, one of which was quite improbable (Oregon vs Oregon State). In objective truth we did not win the necessary games, other teams lost the necessary games.

The Florida game was a bit of fluke but we fair and square lost vs UCLA and Oregon. If you want to make the championship game you usually can’t afford to lose to 2 of the 3 main teams vying for the same spots you are. Consider the fact that two teams who beat us, and frankly were probably better than us (since, you know, they beat us in convincing fashion), had to watch us play in the championship game ahead of them. Utah deserves credit for proving they had USC’s number but they also deserve credit for their loses.

[UteFanatic]

It’s not disingenuous at all. This happens all the time in contests of many different types. Elections aren’t decided until all votes are counted. Division or conference championships are not named until all games are played because upsets happen.

You are simply arguing semantics of when Utah clinched the 2nd spot, but this happens all the time. Ohio State wasn’t in the playoff until Utah beat USC. They didn’t back in. They were primed to move up if a team ahead of them lost. Their performance put them in the #5 spot pending the outcome of the final games. Utah was the same way.

[RoboUte]

You’re just rehashing what happened in a way that helps you convince yourself tbh. We went in over two teams there were better than us AND beat us head to head, that’s a fact.

[UteFanatic]

Nope. UW lost to ASU. You can’t lose to a 3 win team and expect to be in the CCG. UW also didn’t play USC. Neither did Oregon.

A single head to head result doesn’t determine who best performed against the entirety of the schedule. That’s not how any of this works.

Utah and USC were the two best teams. The tiebreaker rules got it right.

[RoboUte]

UW? They aren’t even one of the two teams in question lmao. Though one could argue they were as good as us. Honestly you sound lost bringing up UW here.

“A single head to head result doesn’t determine who best performed against the entirety of the schedule”

As long as football has a serious sample size problem (hint: always) you must consider head to heads. An entire season of football games is still such a woefully small sample size the best team can hardly be determined at all. At the number of games played in a football season a team of equal strength and of strength of schedule can vary by several wins based on pure chance. This isn’t basketball or baseball where dozens of games against vastly wider variety of teams is played. there are simply inefficiencies in college football ranking outcomes that only someone with no knowledge of statistics, or someone arguing in bad faith (you) could entirely ignore.

The best team is not always ranked first, the 2nd best team is not always ranked 2nd. Matchups make games so head to heads matter. these are all facts and all things you choose to ignore.

[EagleMountainUte]

They lost to Oregon. They needed other teams to win to obtain the CCG nod. Also that rule change I don’t like it. It makes zero sense. Hopefully with Cali schools leaving PAC goes to 8 conference games.

[UteFanatic]

Yeah, but that’s not backing in though. Backing in implies they didn’t deserve to be there. The games weren’t completed yet. Backing in would be like what happened to UCLA in 2011. USC actually won the division but was barred from the CCG because of sanctions so the 2nd place South team, UCLA, got in instead.

[Ted Lasso]

Look on the bright side, I would have much preferred watching my team lose in the Rose Bowl than watch my team barely squeak out a win against a mediocre SMU team in yet another meaningless bowl.

[UteFanatic]

Thanks for being one of the good BYU fans that doesn’t make it a life goal to diminish everything Utah does or is involved with.

If BYU were to win the Big12 and make a big bowl game, I’d be honest about it and say that it’s a good accomplishment. Winning a conference is always a nice accomplishment. I enjoyed it while in the MWC and I enjoy it being in the Pac12.

I think BYU fans have forgotten how difficult it is to win a conference. Even in the MWC, Utah, BYU, and TCU only won it a few times each. I think many of your fellow fans will gain an appreciation for it again after being in the Big12 for a few years. I honestly think Independence has made BYU fans forget what being in a conference is like.

[DataUte]

I agree with most you said, but I don’t like the ‘we backed into the CCG’ rhetoric. Sure, there were some that if they won, they were in (Oregon). But if you change the schedule around and we play Oregon St. last and had to win, we would have ‘won our way in’. Everyone put together the season and all had access to the same tie-breakers. We earned our spot in the CCG AND we won it!

However, totally agree that we were a good team, not great. The PAC12 was up this year over last year, but still not an elite conference. But there really was only 1 ‘elite’ team (UGA) and 5-6 ‘great’ teams (I’d put TCU, Mich, Ohio St. there), then ‘really good’ teams (probably Alabama, Tenn, Clem, KSU, Penn St., Tulane) then ‘good’ (UW, Utah, LSU? Oregon, USC, Oregon St.)

[UteFanatic]

The “backing in” narrative is the dumbest oft repeated line I’ve seen this season from our fanbase.

Some Ute fans just can’t help but resort to self-loathing and misery when things don’t go well. It’s pathetic.

[ironman1315]

Utah made it tot wh rough equivalent of the elite 8. We were a great team. But the difference between great and elite is vast. And we were missing much of our best production in this game.

[UteFanatic]

Well said. And this is going to prove itself over and over again in the 12 team playoff. Don’t get me wrong, I’m super excited to see more CFB games but the elite teams will continue to regularly win national championships with an occasional Cinderella team once every decade, a la TCU this year.

[chinngiskhaan]

Now we are just arguing semantics here. It all depends on what you consider to be great. Yes, we were ranked #8, but we were not the 8th best team in the country. I would say we were probably more like 14th or 15th best, which is still very good… But in my opinion, a great team is a team that is not perfect, but never craps the bed. We crapped the bed a number of times. With the exception of games against USC, we lost every “toss up” game we played this year. That isn’t what great teams do. Great teams win the majority of 50/50 matchups they play. Elite teams don’t have 50/50 games to play unless they are playing another elite team. Elite teams are expected to win national championships. Good teams are expected to win the majority of their games, have weaknesses that can be fatal (like RJ Hubert being a starter). We were a good team (very good when healthy, but never great).

[2008 National Champ]

Finally some rankings logic. Let me throw out some names: Texas A&M (6), Oklahoma (9), Baylor (10), Oklahoma State (12), Michigan State (15), Miami-FL (16), Pittsburgh (17), Wisconsin (18), Arkansas (19), Kentucky (20), Mississippi (21), Wake Forest (22), Cincinatti (23), Houston (24), parochial school (25). That would be 15 teams who were ranked in the preseason poll that were unranked before the bowl games.

How about after week 10 – first committee rankings: Mississippi (11), Illinois (14), North Carolina (17), Oklahoma State (18), Syracuse (20), Wake Forest (22), Central Florida (25). 7 teams still thought to be the best in the country who were gone a month later. Also of note, a potential top 10 team in Washington was not ranked at the time.

The biggest joke in the history of football is that groupthink is the best arbiter of FBS hierarchy. Bring on the 24 team playoff and finally let it be decided on the field.

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