Minneapolis has veto proof action to disband and defund the Police Department

[EagleMountainUte]

I guess when the officer is fired after a day and charged with a crime this is the only action that can be taken. 

Interesting to see the fallout from the Police Unions in that area. 

Also interested to see which department is next. Covid is now second on the list of reasons for me why society will not resume anytime soon. 

[ironman1315]

The Minneapolis PD has a lot of problems. This might be better for them to start over.

[EagleMountainUte]

24 officers quit and 46 took early retirement today . Where are they going to find the new fancy workers when they broke a contract with the Union? 

Omni Consumer Products is a fictional private security company. 

[Dwight89]

I’m pretty sure there’s like 40 million unemployed Americans that are out looking for work right now. 

[UteThunder]

How many of those unemployed Americans are qualified to become police officers? More importantly, how many are willing to sign up for a job that is not only thankless but also doesn’t pay all that well and has a significant portion of society that outright hates the people who do the job?

[Dwight89]

You need to have a high school diploma or GED, be over 18/21 depending on the state, and have no criminal history. I think that fits a good majority of prospective employees. 

[Central Coast Ute]

Ok. Now how many are willing? You also left out the psych test qualification and physical.

[EagleMountainUte]

Across the country in these cities that democrats run there have been a lot of openings in departments. 

[CapitalUte]

Where are you hearing that law enforcement doesn’t pay well? From what I’ve seen in articles about the skyrocketing cost of public employee pension programs it actually pays very well. I struggle to think of another job that allows an individual with only a high school diploma to earn a 60K+ pension after only 20 years of service. 

[Central Coast Ute]

60k over 20 years to deal with what they have to deal with which caused extreme trauma, PTSD and leads to physical issues, lower quality of life and lower life expectancy is not good pay. I’d like to see you do it, you wouldn’t last 5 minutes, let alone e 20 years.

[UteThunder]

Average starting hourly salary for a police officer is . . .

$25.53 in New York. (highest)

$22.88 in California.

$21.53 in Utah.

$18.73 in North Carolina. (lowest)

Not exactly what anyone would consider being paid “very well,” especially in NY & CA.

They need more than a high school diploma. In Utah, they need to attend the police academy which is the equivalent of two full-time semesters of college. As for the 60K+ pension, yeah, if they become a Lieutenant or Captain. The cops I know who will be hitting their 20 years in the next 5-7 years and have not been promoted to Sergeant or higher will retire at a yearly salary of $60K if they are lucky. Their pensions will be ~ $40K. And it’s only that high because they were hired under the old system. New Utah police officers hired after 2011 have to work for 25 years and will receive pensions that are significantly lower.

[CapitalUte]

Yup, most starting salaries suck. That is still more than some college graduates like teachers who don’t even crack $20 hr in any state. The average US household income is only $62k, and your cop buddies are close to that on one income.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median high school graduate earns $37,062, The median for those with some college but no degree is $40,248. The median salary for the police was $65,107 and as I mentioned includes a pension which is very rare for most careers even with a 4 yr degree. Plus the police academy pays future cops to attend, so zero student debt. That sounds like a pretty good alternative for someone who doesn’t want to do the college path yet wants to make college graduate money. Even when compared to something like a teacher that requires a bachelor’s degree and only pays $59,420 or a firefighter that also requires academy training and earns only a median $50,850. 

[UteThunder]

My cop buddies are nearing the end of their law enforcement careers and still don’t make $60K per year. They have been maxed out on their salaries for the last few years and only receive COLA raises of maybe 1% some years, nothing in other years. Like I said, they will be lucky to hit $60K before they retire. Your claim that cops are paid “very well” is totally boggess, especially when you factor in the job they have to do to earn it.

Most police departments don’t pay officers to go through the academy. They won’t even consider applicants who haven’t put themselves through the academy; at least in Utah. 

[EagleMountainUte]

In Utah their overtime doesn’t count towards their retirement either. No Union protects them in Utah.  

[Central Coast Ute]

I wouldn’t be a police officer in Minneapolis. They should all walk off the job right now. See how it works out for the communists in the city council.

[dystopiamembrane]

Again with the communists…

[Central Coast Ute]

They pledged their support for Antifa. What do you think they are?

[dystopiamembrane]

persons opposed to fascism

[Central Coast Ute]

Antifa are admitted communists.

[dystopiamembrane]

Most are simply young, reactionary, bourgeois persons opposed to white nationalist groups holding demonstrations in their locales. The folks whom I know that ally themselves with the movement are closet members of the US Democratic Party who try to walk the direct-action anarchist label. Communism is a label that few, if any, people use in my area. It is thought of as a tired ideology lacking any motivation for direct action. Anti-authoritarianism is a label thrown about in the movement. However, as I mentioned above, it is predominantly an outlet for bourgeois rage and less about any political ideal. There are a number of articles purporting to know the political ideologies of these folks in this wiki article. Note sourced articles 27 through 35.

[Utesbyfive]

Who would want to be a police officer anymore? I’d be surprised if any agency in the 50 states sees more than a trickle of applicants. Prepare for the worst. Protect yourselves.

[dystopiamembrane]

Thankfully, we had a gun discussion earlier.

[Tony (admin)]

And a decision has been made. 

[CapitalUte]

Union’s have been under assault for decades and union membership has declined drastically across all industries/services. Auto unions were blamed for driving up the cost of cars and declining quality because it protected bad workers. Teachers’ unions have been blamed for the rising cost of education and the poor test results in our schools. So many jurisdictions are defunding public education and seeking charter/private school options. Those are just a few examples, but there are many more.

Why is it that Police unions have mostly avoided a similar fate? Why can’t their union’s be blamed for rising costs and poor outcomes like every other industry/service union? If a city finds that efforts to change/negotiate with the police force aren’t working, why can’t they end the contract and make a new one with the county sheriff department under the terms they do want? While it is very rare, it did happen in Camden New Jersey back in 2013. My guess is that it will happen more often now given how many communities seem unhappy with their police departments.   

[Central Coast Ute]

You’re trying to compare apples to oranges. Buying a non unionized vehicle from a Japanese company has proven to be a better option than their American counterparts. Not only that, the vehicles retain their value better. Charter schools also tend to be a better option for low income families that can’t afford private schools for their children but care enough to not want their kids to join the mess in public schools. To say the teachers union has no teeth is almost laughable and flat out false. Here in California, charter schools are under attack due to the teachers unions putting the governor in their back pocket. Now, it will be harder for poor families who live in a bad school district and can’t afford to get out, to provide a quality, safe education for their children.

Police officer by and large do a great job for little pay, no thanks and a ton of bull s**t. No one is defending Derek what’s his face. No cop out there has come out and supported him, in fact they have all condemned it and they stand with the peaceful protesters in blue states and cities that want change. Unfortunately, the people in those states and cities refuse to change their voting habits when everything around them is burning down.

You can go ahead and cut out the police, lower their salaries etc. What will happen? Who will replace them? Answer: the people who wanted to be cops but couldn’t cut it originally and became mall cops instead. When you have to lower hiring standards to fill positions, what you have now will look like heaven in comparison.

[EagleMountainUte]

Essentially what people want is a better trained officer correct?  In what aspect?  You want 3-4 years of specialty training?  Or is it just a college education? Let’s say a minimum associates degree in Criminology. Something that can be obtained anyways by most academies. This will make for better cops correct? You want a highly specialized trained officer that will work s**t hours for the first three to four years of his career. Graves and swings mostly weekends and and generally all holidays. That has to work two jobs in that timeframe and get called into court or held over their 10-12 hour shift a lot. 

Not only that you have to deal with the absolute worst society has to offer. You have to deal with mental anguish and terrible things. Like a 19 year old raping a 4 year old. Or a family annihilator that shot his entire family. You have to sit in a house with a body that has been decaying for two weeks. You get to arrest a 6’5 overweight human on PCP who is smothered in feces that cut himself and is assaulting people at the Starbucks. 

You are telling me that people will want to attend a paramilitary academy for up to three to four years to do that?  You are the ignorant one. 

[CapitalUte]

Who did I call ignorant? 

[CapitalUte]

Where did I say teachers’ unions don’t have any teeth? I said they are under attack and get blamed for poor results in education, which you confirmed by immediately attacking teachers’ unions and blaming them for bad school districts in CA. 

And you may want to look into Lt. Bob Kroll’s (the Minneapolis Police Union president) statements and letter to his members before you say zero police officers have defended Derek what’s his face. 

So if breaking up the power of unions has had good results in all sectors from manufacturing, education, and government why is it that police are the one exception to the rule? What makes police unions apple to those oranges? Why are they so special that they must remain as the last standing union? There are lots of dangerous poor paying s**tty jobs out there that still get filled without a union rep.  

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