(Mostly)Optimistic musings from today as…

[Ute2]

…I watch some pac-12 after dark.
1. Holy cow or defense is good. Once o’toole is back and helping us get home with 4 we’ll be TOUGH(er). There isn’t a weakness there except maybe the inability to generate pressure with 4. Hoping o’toole gets back and helps with that.
2. I much more confident in the weapons for this offense than I was to start the year. Mikey matthews is a dude. Vele has found another gear I think as a route runner and parks really good.
3. I thought jqj didn’t look entirely healthy and still churned out a monster game. As he gets healthier, look out.
4. Today reinforced that we’re really good on both sides of the trenches.
5. All the pieces for the offense are there to be really good. Just need to sort the qb spot to have it all come together.
—————-
6. Really hope rising is ready to be a threat with his legs. He doesn’t need to be the guy he was. But if he can’t keep ‘em honest, I’m worried it might not come together. Lots of talent but we need a qb that can make them play the rpo.
7. I’m not holding my breathe that we’ll see the real Kuithe this year. I hope we do but I’d bet the smart money is on him not being himself until next season. No insider info. Just a gut feeling…. Dudes just don’t go from not practicing to their dynamic selves like that. We may see a miracle Javantae Williams(running back for the broncos) this year. But he’s been going all fall camp. I’m not sure I’ve heard kuithe is doing anything game-like yet. Hope I’m wrong! He’d be quite the price to be able to add to a great group!
—————-
8. Feeling excited about this group if our acls get right!!!!
9. No more scooters.

[Ute2]

Also, we’re the refs big xii? Pac?

[chinngiskhaan]

The ref certainly had a big12 accent.

[SalUteopia]

Appreciate the take, but did we watch the same game?!

[Ute2]

Yup. We could’ve rolled those dudes had we had good qb okay from the jump.

Lots of good stuff from the offense. Qb wasn’t one of them until the 4th. So we struggled.

[Central Coast Ute]

Does Kuithe have another year after this? I knowncovid made things weird but I thought he’s out of eligibility

[Ute2]

He could med-redshirt I think. Honestly wouldn’t surprise me. Again, no insider info. Just that I’m not feeling optimistic.

[Dresden_Stormblessed]

Lol’d at “No more scooters”

[chinngiskhaan]

I think Simote Pepa will make a bigger difference than O’Toole. Pepa was the guy that turned things around for our D last year. Having guys on the inside eat up blockers does more for the pass rush than any amount of talent on the outside could do. I can’t wait to see what this team can do when healthy.

I disagree on Vele. Not that I’m certain he hasn’t improved, but the numbers certainly don’t back you up. Of course, that could be a Barnes problem. I’ll hold off on pronouncements about the receivers until Rising comes back for a couple of games, though I do agree about Matthews. He’s the best WR we have.

I’m with you on Kuithe. If he’s not close to coming back by now, he’s not going to be anywhere near 100% this season. He could still be valuable though. I wonder if he gets used as a decoy like he was at times a couple years ago when he came back from injury not completely healthy.

Nobody will like this, but if I was the coach, I think I would have told both Rising and Kuithe that they should move on from the Utes. I would have preferred to move on from them and prepare our young offense for our first season in the Big12. Of course, having them on the team even when not playing does bring some value due to their experience and leadership, but I have to wonder if having them around has hindered the development of the team in some way. Maybe coaches are dividing their attention on a healing Rising/Kuithe and the rest of the team instead of focusing 100% on the rest of the team. Just a thought.

[Ute2]

Vele’s route running made play 1 vs. Florida work.

I’m sad for his stat line because with rising he’s be looking nice.

Also, not standing by your studs is probs a good way to crater your recruiting. Bye, bye Wilson, Washington, etc.

[UrbanLiar]

Agreed. Imagine the PR *^%# storm if the staff told Rising to move on, and the captain of the 2 time and currently defending PAC 12 champions accepted the offer to be the QB at Florida. No thanks…

[2008 National Champ]

It’s not the funnest part of watching college football but the top teams stay the top teams by continually turning over their rosters. You lose more prospects by having one guy in a position for multiple years than you do telling players to capitalize on their success at the first opportunity.

This is complete hindsight but if Kuithe was going to go pro, he should have done so after the 2021 season. Yes, he would have been a low pick at best but was the risk of injury worth it? He was always going to be a tweener (too small for TE, not enough speed for WR), no matter what happened last year. At this point, I doubt there is anything he could do the rest of the year to get back to whatever he was perceived as.

[Ute2]

For Utahs sake it’s best to have as many returners as possible. With as much experience as possible. You might lose a guy here or there because of depth at a position but on the whole, studs being studs, even for a long time will dramatically help recruiting. And if you lose that guy, it means you already have the talent to be good and can go fill the need way easier the next year when you need to.

This thread is officially closed to people trying to ouch Rising and Kuithe out the door, haha.

For Kuithe’s sake it’s a bummer he didn’t jump…

[2008 National Champ]

I disagree. The best thing for Utah’s sake is to keep bringing in qualified replacements every year and getting them on the field.

Fans love that they know the names of players from year to year but it is not always the best thing for the program. Also, the extra Covid year created a logjam at positions and has already caused kids to transfer. If Kuithe burns his eligibility in 2021 and moves on, does Utah have two tight ends transfer out after last year? Don’t forget that Kuithe was in the class behind Jaylon Johnson who is on his 4th year in the league. Could one of those two transfers have contributed this year instead of moving Sugutaraga from D? So now you’ve got Kuithe who is in his 6th year of being the projected starter. And not much currently playable behind him. Talented kids go where they think they can play early and often.

The same issue is happening with Rising. How much development has he cost Rose, Barnes and Johnson? Because every rep he takes is one they don’t get. This is also his 4th year as the projected starter. So you had no one ready to take over for him, and you aren’t using all of your resources to get one of the others ready. The coaches have told us over and over that it doesn’t matter what any of the others in the room do, it’s Rising’s job as soon as he is cleared. So how does that help Utah moving forward?

[Ute2]

I’ll take Kuithe over a low rated transfer and a walk-on.

He and cam haven’t taken reps away from other dudes. Because they haven’t been live.

We’ve recruited very well at TE with Landon king and Cj Jacobsen. And we were this close to landing the top te in the nation. We lost him to Georgia. So we’re not losing out on recruits. Anybody worthwhile we’ve lost is like Isaac Vaha to medical retirement. We also lost Peter Costelli to, checks notes, Northern Colorado. Not exactly the who’s who of ‘would be helping us this year.’

Last years class had Nate johnson4* and next years has Isaac Wilson 4*. Nate is getting valuable reps right now which will be huge next year.

I’m just not seeing how that makes the slightest bit of sense. I’m seeing how it could irreparably cause people to never sign with us again because they can’t trust our coaches…

[2008 National Champ]

If Costelli was so bad, why bother recruiting him?

Normally I don’t go this far with an online debate since we are obviously both set in our opinions but your last line stuck out. I didn’t say or imply irreparably harmed and you know it. My point is now and always has been that you keep your program strong by turning over the roster.

Let’s take a different player than Kuithe or Rising since we call all agree that they are going to be exceptions to any rule we collectively come up with. Andrew Mata’afa. Same class as Kuithe. Over his 5 years at Utah he managed 21 tackles in garbage time and on special teams. Is the program stronger because he was on scholarship for 5 years or “could” it have been stronger if that spot had been filled by someone with more potential than Mata’afa proved?

The point is not specifically that Kuithe is taking up a spot. Or Rising. It’s that if you are not constantly doing everything you can to upgrade your roster you are falling behind. And if you keep a Kuithe or a Rising past their expiration date by not advising them to make the most of their opportunities at their peak leverage, then how do you advise the kids who did not pan out as you hoped (for whatever reason) to look for opportunities that better suit their current status?

[Ute2]

I know you didn’t imply irreparable harm. I did. You can tell a kid that’s low on the depth chart to go get some playing time somewhere else.

You can’t tell your stars recovering from knee injuries that they’re damaged goods.

Advocating that the program bounces Kuithe and Rising is an amazing hill to die on. My guess is you’ll do it alone though.

[2008 National Champ]

Now I’m advocating bouncing Kuithe and Rising?

[Ute2]

That’s how I’m reading it. You’re saying it would be better if they weren’t here stealing reps from the youngins.

[89ute]

Rising is making a lot of money, supposedly a hell of a lot more than we would have received as a later-round, injured draft pick. Kuithe may be in the same boat but I have not heard the rumors on his NIL cash but safe to assume it’s not bad.

The only thing surprising to me is how long Rising dragged out the drama of the decision unless he was putting the squeeze on some NIL donors.

[The Miami Ute]

Due to the type of injury that both Kuithe and Rising suffered, you would have thought that the Utes would have, at the very least, come up with some insurance in case neither was ready to play this season. I’ve been saying that, even if both come back and play during the 2023 season, it’s highly likely that they won’t be the same players that they were pre-injury, at least in the short term. Cam can still be effective using his arm and can pick up yards here and there. Kuithe though is a different proposition. He needs to be dynamic to really be an asset. I know it sounds cold, but I’ve kind of written Kuithe off for this season. I personally don’t think we’ll see much of him or, if we do, it will be in the form of cameo appearances later in the season. Does anyone know if he’s even started practicing with the team?

[Ute2]

I think rising comes back this season to be what we need. No doubt slow a step but probably good enough with his legs to keep ‘em honest and keep a play alive. Great with his arm. I really am drinking some cool aid on his receiving options.

But yup, Kuithe needs to be Kuithe to be Kuithe. 🙂

Hope to be wrong! But if not, that Kuithe Johnson connection gonna be litty next year!!

[The Miami Ute]

I sincerely doubt that Kuithe would be back next year. This is Kuithe’s sixth season (yes, sixth season) with the Utes, and he’s never red-shirted, so I’m pretty certain that he’s used up all remaining eligibility that he has.

[Ute2]

I don’t fully know the rules but I’d bet he has a medical redshirt. And he’ll need next year for a little draft stock. Anybody have insight on medical redshirt rules?

My understanding is something like if you’re out with in the first couple games of a given season you basically qualify. And I’d nothing counts from Covid then he can be a seventh year guy.

Baylor had one, or so the announcers said.

[2008 National Champ]

Kuithe used his redshirt last year.

2018 – 1st year of eligibility
2019 – 2nd year
2020 – did not count
2021 – 3rd year
2022 – Redshirt
2023 = last year of eligibility unless he applies for medical waiver

[Ute2]

Gimme one more year of prime Kuithe next year with Nate Johnson or Isaac Wilson slinging the ball!

(But really, hopefully he gets on the field this year and we do something special.)

[The Miami Ute]

That’s a tough ask…if Kuithe stays another season with Utah beyond this one with the hopes of making it to the NFL, that would mean he would be almost 26 years old at the start of his first NFL season.

[Ute2]

I suppose you think he has enough college film to go give it a whirl next year? Hope so.

Or does he need another year to prove he’s healthy?

Tough decisions for him. Bummer. That was an ill-timed injury.

[The Miami Ute]

Kuithe has a ton of college tape already. I mean, he was Pac-12 All-Conference second-team and Pro Football Focus All-America third-team after the 2019 season (his sophomore year). As others have mentioned, he should have left after the 2021 season. It’s probably what I would have advised him to do. However, he stayed to further burnish his draft credential but it went sideways. It happens more than we think.

[Tony (admin)]

I think we have a weakness in the secondary which is the deep ball.

[Ute2]

That looked a little iffy. I bet there is some technique that could help a lot. (Without having gone back and looked).

We’ll for sure be giving up a few of those This year with bishop always up terrorizing the box and what not. That’s the gamble Scalley is making. Results are hard ti argue with. Baylor and Florida combined for 27 on us?

[RoboUte]

sky is blue. water still wet.

[Utah]

At this point, I think the deep ball issues were Scalley’s fault, not our players. It looked like the defenders hit a certain depth and they didn’t guard the WR’s deeper than that. Go look at Bishop’s interception. He was too shallow.

I think Scalley and the defense had the scheme of “this guy hasn’t shown he can throw the ball deeper than 20 yards, so we won’t guard deep and we will take away the short passes. We can get to the QB before the WR’s can get deep.” AND, if this was the scheme, it was 100% the correct scheme as we had 2 INT’s and probably should have had a third.

Soooo, I could be wrong, but at this point, I’m not too worried about the deep balls. If Weber St gets a deep ball vs us, I’ll change my opinion 100%.

[2008 National Champ]

Why do you think Bishop was out of position? Looked like bracket coverage to me.

Now Baylor’s last completion was absolutely on the safeties

Bishop pick at 2:10

[2008 National Champ]

Better angle(s) on this one at 8:22 and backside view. Utah lined up in quarters and no one came into Bishop’s zone so he stayed to help on the crosser that Johnson should have picked up.

[Ute2]

I like this. I figured something went goofy somewhere and not that we just aren’t good enough to prevent that.

[RoboUte]

Despite all of the bad I saw from yesterday’s game I actually came away from it with a homer take. And I’m no diehard optimist, e.g.:Guys I said it months ago, 2021-22 Kuithe is never coming back, give up on it. Nor is 2022 Cam. You’re putting your mental through wringer for something that’s going to let you down.

The way I look at it is this. The actual Utah offense was put into the game with 10 minutes left in the fourth, it got two possessions and score a touchdown on both. We had been held out of the endzone for the entirety of the game prior. And frankly it largely wasn’t through penalties and unlucky breaks, it was pure ineptitude.

Utah had momentum for a precious small amount of game and that was all it needed to outdo Baylor’s production given an entire game where they had all the momentum. There no excuse for Utah to have coming out not giving a s**t like we did. Or to have selected the wrong quarterback like we did (uh, again). But even with all of the self inflicted baggage this team fired on all cylinders for less than a quarter and beat a fired up strong future conference opponent.

If we put together 2 quarters of actual Utah we win that game by 21 at least. If we put together 4 then our backups are in during the 3rd. That doesn’t mean we’ll always play like our best selves but I’d rather have that ceiling than not. And I’ve spent more time as a Utah fan watching teams that DON’t have that ceiling than do so I’m pleased about it.

[Redblood]

If neither are coming back to normal it will be tough sledding. Teams will get film on Nate and then we will see we’re still limited. And our schedule will just be too much.

[RoboUte]

Well we will get Cam back and I have no doubt he will be playing at a high level. But I’d like to call out that we did in fact win games before Cam Rising was enrolled at Utah, despite what some may think, and I’d be willing to bet we will win some after. This is the University of Utah football team, our success cannot rest on on one player, and if it does we don’t deserve to win anyway. I mean nobody ever missed Huntely despite him being better than Cam and I honestly have no explanation for that.

And Kuithe has practically been playing here since the 90s at this point let the young man prepare for the draft. He deserves a shot.

[The Miami Ute]

If Cam Rising leads the Utes to a third consecutive PAC title, do you think that he gets a bronze statue in front of Rice-Eccles?

[Onlyu]

Cam practiced fully last week…he will again this week. Brant’s genetics have a role in his healing. His twin brother was never able to make it back after injuries and medically retired. His family learned a lot from that process and went about it a lot differently with Brant. Hopefully that pays off.

Since the season started without them “game ready” the goal became UCLA. That hasn’t changed and I’d say I’m 90% on Cam and 50/50 on Brant as of today.

[The Miami Ute]

Wow, you even work on Sundays? Many thanks for the update. Personally, I think that Brant has already done more than enough for Utah. I think that he just needs to do whatever is best for himself and not worry about the team at this point in his life.

[Ute2]

That’s a bummer. I really hope he gets his payday at some point next year or the year after…

[RoboUte]

No, but a very nice plaque would be good.

[Ute2]

That’s my fear. But, I don’t discount that it’s possible NJ could get a hold of this thing and go on a tear. He’s Uber talented!

[Author]

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