Offensive Analysis

[SackLakeCity]

So I have really liked being a part of this forum because it has a lot of really good analysis and thought and provides a deeper discussion on the actual problem instead of just talking about the need to fire a coordinator or change quarterbacks. Although those are the two biggest factors in the offense, it is a more complicated problem than just replacing or changing a quarterback or coordinator.

I think the offense breaks down into:

Offensive Identity/Scheme
Players
Plays

If I were to analyze the problem I would start with the questions:

Offensive Identity/Scheme

1- Do we have the right offensive identity or scheme?
2- Why is the offensive the best one to run? (hopefully getting fans to come to the game is not an answer)
3- Does the scheme maximize the talents we have on the team?

Players

1- Do we have the right players to fit the scheme?
2- Can we get the right players to fit the scheme?
3- Can we list the individual player talents and how to use them in the scheme?
4- Are the coaches getting the most out of the players?

Plays

1- Do the plays fit the scheme?
2- Do the plays fit with what the defense gives us?
3- Do the plays maximize the abilities of the players?
4- Are the plays adapted to best fit the opportunity?

As I mentioned earlier it is more than just of coordinator and a quarterback…obviously a good coordinator or quarterback can mask deeper issues.

I think going forward the scheme should be kept intact, recruits should fit the scheme, the scheme should change a little bit depending players to maximize their abilities and Utah should only go for players that will work within the system.

I think for the most part Utah does a good job with the above questions, but I think there is a lot to be gained by refining, tracking, and focusing on a system, players, and plays that work for what Utah decides to do.

Love to hear thoughts on this.

[Anonymous]

Utah needs some talent in the wideout position. I have no clue what offense Utah runs. With McCormick and Williams coming back I think we can remove the power part of our spread,option read thingey. We got to see what the offense looks like without Covey and Booker last saturday and it ain’t pretty. I also disagreed strongly on the play Utah had Covey run. Covey is better when you get the ball to him in space and he makes a guy miss. Wildcat was just a headscratcher to me personally. I have always hated the wildcat unless it is goal line situation with a Booker or Asiata type guy.

Going forward I just don’t see Utah having any playmakers for whoever the starting QB is. No one got open on Saturday and it sucked.

[SackLakeCity]

it seems like over the years, Utah has been able to get good wide receivers…I guess I would wonder, how would the good receivers in the past do vs the current PAC -12 defenses? Would that have been able to get open? I’m thinking about David Read, Freddy Brown, etc…the fringe NFL types Utah has had over the years.

[Anonymous]

The answer is simple, you build the scheme to the capabilities of the players you have. We had a bruising Running Back and a QB adept at running the read option run. Unfortunately, our QB was terribly inaccurate when passing more than 10 yards down the field and he could not read pass defense. So the coaches schemed up a game plan that fit what we had.

If you delivered these coaches a Josh Rosen, they would game plan around his skill set. Utah’s problem is that they rarely get a whiff at a Josh Rosen in the recruiting process.

[The Lone Wolf]

Agree with the OP. Utehub is a good site. Much better than the cesspool that is Utefans.net.

Thoughts from a BYU fan…Whittingham, for some reason that is inexplicable to me, insists on running some weird variation of the spread with some elements of a between the tackles power running game thrown in. Whittingham has proven for the last decade he can’t attract QB’s or coaches talented enough to run the system he wants to run. He is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Utah is successful on defense because of size, physicality, and discipline. Why not have the same philosophy on O? Why Utah doesn’t implement a Stanford-esqe running game is baffling to me. Utah can recruit monsters on the line of scrimmage and have been successful for years pulling RB’s out of JC’s. They have zero ability to recruit talented QB’s. It seems so obvious to me.

But it won’t change as long as Whitt is around. And I am grateful. Watching Ute offensive futility is pretty entertaining. Next year is going to be a circus.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by The Lone Wolf.

[Tony (admin)]

Excellent discussion and I do appreciate it. This is not a bunch of people bitching and moaning about each other, it’s an actual great football conversation!

I’ve been thinking we should go Stanford style for a long time. That kind of O is really what we would be best at anyway. Punch you in the mouth on both sides of the ball. That’s Whitts persona anyway. I think he’s an awesome coach in 75-80% of the game (defense, special teams, motivation)… that 25% (offense) is the 25% we will lose every year. I think the ceiling for us with the right players at the right positions is 8-9 wins until we can find an offensive identity and a QB that matches it with some decent “throw game.”

[utahpunk]

I honestly think we need to keep the OC and the position coaches in tact (as much as possible) to establish consistency. This year we have a mixture of players that were recruited under former OC’s regimes. I think we need to hold on to the staff in place, and see what they can do when they fill the ranks with their recuits/players.

If this incoming QB transfer is as good as some of the hype I have seen, then we may have a decent team next year on the offensive side of the ball. I am cautiously optimistic about 2016.

[SackLakeCity]

@admin 100% agree with your analysis, Whitt gets about 80% right, just need to get the offense in order. I would like to have a system put in place for a special season every 3-4 years instead of every 10 or so.

I also like the Stanford model as an example, I actually think Utah can create a better than Stanford instead of really smart players we can be made of angry jc players with a massive chip on their shoulder that need to make something happen to make it to the next level.

@utahpunk. I hope the JC works out and can make some good throws as well as being a threat with his feet.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by SackLakeCity.

[Anonymous]

I think I posted it before, but the JC route has been good for RBs and WRs in the past. Less likely for QBs because the best recruits at the QB position are unlikely to fall into the JC academic rehab description.

Kansas State had built some phenomenal teams with JC recruits, so it’s viable and should not be ignored, but probably not something that should be relied on.

They should continue the mix of HS recruits, JC recruits, CFB transfers. The most important area they need to improve on is the recruitment of QBs. I’m hoping that Erickson’s work in this area will pay off. The program just can’t have the one-dimensional offense (ESPN’s description) where you risk losing the ONE (Booker) because you use it too often. Whitt knows that you need to be successful in all 3 parts (Offense, Defense, Special Teams); he should know that offense needs to be successful in both the Run and the Pass game.

[Anonymous]

We’re stuck recruiting JC QBs because we either fail at developing our highschool QB recruits or they weren’t any good to begin with.

In the case of Conner Manning, I could see he was undersized to begin with. He was worth taking a chance on, but should not have counted towards 1 of our 2 QBs we should be signing every year. That’s another problem: we don’t sign two QBs every year like we should.

I can see signing Brandon Cox and getting him in the program so he can play safety, but to count him as 1 of 2 QBs we were recruiting that year was a mistake, he obviously does not have the arm to throw into tight spaces, he lobs every pass.

Donovon Isom had the physical tools, we apparently weren’t able to teach him how to be a QB at this level.

Chase Hansen hurt his shoulder and hasn’t had the same velocity on his throws since. And now we broke his leg playing him on defense.

So we struck out four times and now we’re left with no choice but to sign the best JC QB we could find. I’m of the opinion that we need a real QB coach, a guy whose only job is to recruit and coach QBs so we don’t strike out so many times. Andy Ludwig did this when we had some respectable QB play. Brian Johnson, Brett Ratliff were both solid QBs, much better than what we’ve seen since.

[SackLakeCity]

@whistleofmoose great analysis! totally agree, I would also mention a problem of having to be in a situation where we had to start Travis Wilson as a unprepared freshman, the ball was totally dropped after the Brian Johnson/Brett Ratliff qb era, Jordan Wynn was good, but couldn’t handle the wear and tear of the D1 level.

Also I agree with you on the lack of development or identifying talent at QB with the current staff, one of the quarterbacks between Isom, Manning, or Cox should have been good enough to step in after Wilson this year. That speaks to either lack of identifying talent or lack of development. Hopefully the JV Qb can be a band aid until the problem can be solved.

[Anonymous]

I keep asking the question, had they given a fraction of the reps and game time that were invested in Wilson to either of Manning, Isom or Cox, would they have been able to supplant Wilson? We’ll never know the answer. I know Cox has been on and off injured. Manning reportedly has the best arm and accuracy of all of them, but suffered with the speed of the game and his ability to read defenses. As a pocket passer, Manning would take more time to develop. We never got to see much of Isom. An awful lot of time was invested in Wilson and arguably the only area he made noticeable progress in was the read option run.

[SackLakeCity]

@westslopecutthroat I would say my main strategy for Utah going forward is getting the angry JC kid. Although I would limit the angry JC kid strategy to mainly Wide Receivers, Running Backs, and Specialists. I would also want to plan and sign one linebacker and dt/de from Snow College every year to provide depth and fill a need. I would also want find the occasional JC steal that can fit other need on the team. I wouldn’t want to sign too many JC quarterbacks unless it is to fill a back-up or depth role.

I would put a team of angry JC’s against USC, Oregon, and any team in the PAC 12 and feel really optimistic about it.

[SackLakeCity]

A comment on QB’s the last 10 years…I never want to see Tommy Grady or a Jordan Wynn type quarterback run the read option and keep the ball, it goes against the laws of physics.

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