QB rumors I heard on the radio this morning

[ProudUte]

Here are a couple of things I heard on the radio this morning concerning our QB situation. These are not official statements from Whitt or Lud. But, it comes from things that PK/DJ have heard. So, take it for what it is worth.

1. The reason Cam has not played is because not all of the doctors have agreed on his status. One doctor says he is good to go and the other says “no.” Whitt has not been playing games and is frustrated. He honestly thought Cam could go.

2. Whitt will no longer wait until Thursday to make a decision on who plays QB. The decision will be made on Monday and QB1 will get the majority of the reps. No more splitting reps.

3. Rose is back on the depth chart and is practicing. (I hope this is true.)

Again, take it for what it’s worth.

[Tony (admin)]

Saw an interview yesterday with Whitt and he said there was “uno” doctors they were waiting for clearance from.

[mfaulk80]

Most of this is just pulled from Whitt’s interview yesterday. I gather that the team’s medical staff think he should be good to go, but Cam is waiting until the actual surgeon clears him. That’s the “uno” doctor. In that interview, it was also revealed that Brant has the same doctor. Whitt said that part of the recent problem is that they’ve been waiting to get clearance until later in the week, and obviously this has bitten them in the foot. I don’t think he specifically said Monday, but he said that they’ll be aiming to get clearance early in the week (presumably so reps can be divvied up appropriately).

In answering a question about who the back up would be if Cam isn’t a go, Whitt mentioned Rose and Bottari. DJ/PK may just be using that information to make the (correct) assumption that Rose is practicing. Rose was NOT on the most recent depth chart, but Whitt only takes season-ending injuries into account for the depth chart and the QB position is only 2 deep. So Cam is #1 and Nate is #2. Unless someone gets knocked out for the season or Rose passes Nate, the depth chart at QB will remain the same.

I’ve heard Rose is back practicing, but it’s not necessarily full participation. I’m not sure what that means as I also believe I heard he was running the scout team.

[Utesbyfive]

Dr Neal ElAttrache

[Miles E.]

The same doctor who performed Brant’s surgery? And both are taking longer than usual to recover. 🤔

I’d be real worried if I were Aaron Rodgers..

[//r00t4Utes]

Yeah, I saw that yesterday as well. I couldn’t tell if he said Mack Howard’s name or not as well but maybe it was Rose’s name.

[DrahtUte]

There was also a Twitter post yesterday saying Kyle had even mentioned Luke Botari as being in the mix for QB2 (Rose also mentioned) if Cam can’t go. I don’t know anything about him.

[Ute2]

That’s maddening. We were so close to 5-0!
Such bad luck. Please please please get cam back for Cal

[Ghost of the HEB]

Here’s the frustration simplified: The team has a university affiliated medical staff that they rely on for official clearance from injuries. This staff cleared Cam weeks ago, and there was confidence he’d play against UCLA. Clearly, Cam has also been getting opinions from another non-Utah affiliated Dr (probably his LA surgeon) that has discouraged him from playing in the days leading up to the games. So, the offense has been preparing with the hopes they’d have Cam, only to have those hopes dashed late in the week by non-affiliated docs who’s opinions only take precedence if Cam lets them (which has been the case). Obviously whit is saying no more, and wants Cam/the LA doc to give them a hard decision at the beginning of the week so the actual starter isn’t losing crucial practice reps.

[DataUte]

This actually makes a lot more sense with the rumors swirling that Cam is practicing then people feel like he ‘backs out’ or isn’t ‘ready’ himself – if his surgeon is saying hold off, it might give him more pause and reason to wait as he’s probably not only thinking about this season, but staying healthy to have a chance at trying out the next level. A re-injury and he’s done for good, so being cautious and a doctor reinforcing that probably is yielding this behavior.

I agree with Whitt that enough is enough and they need to know Monday so they don’t waste reps during the week. Let the coaches know early in the week and live with the decision so the team can prep accordingly.

[Tednab]

Cause football is an activity doctors are gonna sign off on… on their side why risk the liability, if there’s is any .. wait til football season is over with then sign him off ..

[2008 National Champ]

Enough was enough for the Baylor game, definitely Weber. If Rising is not able to play, he should not be traveling with the team and should be standing off to the side at home with the other injured players instead of front and center.

Allowing this to string along through 4 game preps did no one any good, no matter how Whitt paints it as not being a distraction in his pressers.

[The Miami Ute]

I’ve also been wondering why, if Cam isn’t playing and is still rehabbing his injury, he’s traveling with the team. Has he turned into some sort of “moral support” guru? Or has Whitt been taking him along in order to befuddle the opposition as to who’s starting the game?

[DataUte]

Isn’t he a Captain?

[The Miami Ute]

Do team captains that are recovering from injuries travel with the team for away games? I don’t recall seeing that in professional sports but I might be mistaken. If I’m not wrong, isn’t Rising going to midfield for the coin flip in civilian clothes as well? I surely haven’t seen that anywhere else.

[DataUte]

Usually it depends on if they are getting active treatment over the weekend or not, but players not playing travel all the time, especially if they were starters – it’s good for team culture, morale, and they can help encourage younger players.

Pros are a little different because they have IR and limited roster counts (53 on active roster, 46 can dress for game). College could fill their travel team (typically ~70) with practice squad guys or others, but an injured (but not getting treatment) ‘star’ is more valuable than someone that won’t play.

I’ve seen other captains in plain clothes before. They don’t show coin tosses on tv much, so just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

[2008 National Champ]

I’m going to assume that Rising is practicing every week based on the coaching staff truly believing that he will get cleared for that week’s game as the reports this week have stated. I understand what they hoped and believe that they had the best intentions, it just didn’t work out.

But every game I watch on TV he’s out on the field pre-game working with the team, he’s standing by Barnes or Bottari when they are giving signals, and the camera always seems to find him front and center when something good or bad happens on offense. He almost gets as much airtime as Zach Wilson’s mom did. If he isn’t going to play, which everyone knew before gameday, keep him the heck out of the way. Because if he has been acting as a player/coach so far this season, it sure isn’t working.

[UtMtBiker]

Makes sense and really how it should be. Team medical staff might not akways have the athletes best interest in mind when there is so much money involved. If I were in Cams shoes, my personal dr. is all that would matter.

[22Ute22]

I agree, and I’ve been critical of this whole Cam situation. At the end of the day, I’d trust the doctor who performed my surgery and is regarded as one of the best in the business, over the team medical staff. That being said, no reps for Cam until the doctor clears him for games.

[Utah5410]

Thanks Ghost… Becoming a Mini OnlyU over here. Do you have any updates on injuries for the CAL Game ?

[Ghost of the HEB]

With it being the bye week there’s not a lot injury news coming out. Echoing what OnlyU said previously, Kuithe has been progressing quickly since the knee scope. The cystic scar tissue was causing swelling/pain when he’d practice. Now that appears to be fixed.

[The Miami Ute]

Whitt should just admit that he effed up not bringing in a seasoned QB from the portal during the offseason. There are many people here on this site who are not football professionals but who predicted the exact series of events that are now playing out with the Utes. This whole Cam Rising injury issue is starting to become worthy of a Netflix docuseries and that’s not a good place to be. I am happy though that Whitt has decided that, from here on in, the practice reps won’t be split. It’s a start and I hope that, whomever is the QB selected, makes good use of them.

[//r00t4Utes]

I didn’t mind and saw the logic in using one of the players recruited out of high school, to see what you got and help develop them by getting more reps in practice and games.

It is nice if you can bring on a top end transfer just like it’s nice to bring in a top end recruit but I believe that the best option is to try and hit on recruits over transfers.

[Utah]

I don’t agree with this at all. If Whitt came out of spring ball and felt good about Rose and Rising was supposed to be back, why would you go after a transfer QB?

[EagleMountainUte]

I would say Whitt felt good with Rose, Johnson and Barnes. If you bring someone in Rose and Johnson probably leave.

It is almost comparable to the RB room. Whitt felt good about Jackson, Bernard, Glover. With Curry able to come back. Whitt takes zero second guessing but faces the same problem. Glover isn’t ready. Curry is trying. Bernard is done and Jackson needs to get healthy.

[The Miami Ute]

Eagle, the RB injury issue isn’t the same at all. Those injuries happened after the season started, not eight months before the first game. You can’t pre=plan for injuries that haven’t happened but you can surely take actions to mitigate injuries that have already taken place. I’ll agree to disagree with you on this issue. I see eye to eye with you on everything else.

[EagleMountainUte]

I did say almost. But Whitt lacked no less foresight with the running back situation. He was two injuries away from being totally empty cupboard.
I think Whitt learned from the Costelli situation. This was a singular person who
made demands of a program as if he was bigger than the program. I think a QB transfer probably wanted the same sort of promises with the money that comes with it. Losing Rose and Johnson could have been the out come

Now many have turned on Johnson now. I don’t see the point as Johnson’s been given so many disadvantages.

Cam Rising returning isn’t the first issue. It is the Oline. The oline is below average and will send Rising back to more recovery.

[2008 National Champ]

3 months post-op on a typical 9-12 month recovery seems like a stretch to count on Rising being back to start the season. It’s the coach’s job to make sure that he has the pieces necessary and that they are ready to handle the job if required. QB3 wasn’t ready or wasn’t capable. QB4 wasn’t ready or isn’t capable. QB5 I’ve read elsewhere that Bottari had transferred (CAL?) and then transferred back during the summer, hasn’t seen the field. QB6 hasn’t seen the field.

In a year where QB1 is not coming off major surgery and has played spring ball, there’s not a chance you hit the portal. In April, Whitt knew what he had in the rest of the room and whether he thought they were capable. If he thought he had enough, an assumption on our parts, then he probably doesn’t hit the portal. If he thought that what he had was lacking but that Rising would be available earlier than standard recovery, again an assumption on our parts, then it would have been prudent to bring someone in, just in case.

We don’t know why Whitt made the decision he did. We can only evaluate the results. And it would be incredibly charitable to say that the QB room has performed well so far this year.

[stbone]

You are making big assumptions about Cam’s injury. I have not read anywhere that it was a full ACL tear, or the specific details of the severity of the injury. I have only seen it referred to as a torn ACL.

Based on Cam not being on crutches and walking around the Rose Bowl, it seems that this wasn’t nearly as serious an ACL injury as Kuithe’s or Covey’s.

To me that key bit of information changes the dynamic of the entire coaching decision. In hindsight, it would have been awesome if they could have gotten Graham Mertz or somebody like him to play. But, if Cam comes back next week and tears it up, then the coaches decision starts looking like the right one again.

At some level, this year was likely going to be a rebuilding year before Cam was injured. Assuming he doesn’t come back, we are back to a rebuilding year. 8-4 (FPI projection) is a really successful rebuilding year if that is where we end up. Anything above that is gravy.

[The Miami Ute]

If it wasn’t a full ACL tear, he probably wouldn’t have undergone surgery. There are cases where the ACL isn’t completely torn (grade 2 injury) and you can undergo surgery but the normal recovery period for that type of injury is much shorter than for a complete tear. In that case, you’re looking at a max of six months before being able to participate in your sport though it can also be much less. That’s definitely not Rising.

[stbone]

That is what I mean. There are facts that would make the coaches off-season behavior completely reasonable, and there are facts that would make the off-season behavior unreasonable. But, we don’t know those facts and we can only guess at them. But, if the injury was a grade two tear, it would have been completely reasonable for coaches to expect Cam to be back 100% by the start of the season, whereas a grade three tear starts to become much more questionable.

My underlying assumption is that the coaches are provided information that is at least as good as ours on recovery times/likely surgical outcomes/when they can expect players back.

It is possible, that coaches were just flat out lying about recovery timetables the whole past year, but their behavior in recruiting and the tidbits we hear from the locker room indicates that the coaches and the team sincerely expected Cam to be back.

For us to think that the coaches botched this situation (did something ridiculously unreasonable), we have to believe that they were being unfettered optimists in light of contrary information. I have not seen anything from Kyle that makes me think he is an unfettered optimist, so I tend to believe that the unknown facts probably pointed towards a less severe injury with a shortened recovery time.

[The Miami Ute]

If Rising had a Grade 2 tear and isn’t playing by now, then he’s had some major complications and reverses in his rehab that haven’t been made public. I tend to think that, if Rising has a Grade 2 tear, that would have been made public along with the expectation of a shortened recovery period.

[stbone]

I just heard Cam say he tore his ACL, meniscus, PCL, and MCL. Sounds like it was more serious than I had hoped, and probably more serious than justifies the timeline initially presented. Given the extent of the injury, the offseason moves (or lack thereof) become much less tenable.

Good analysis and critiques.

[The Miami Ute]

Wow, very few players come back from something like that because very few players ever receive an injury of that magnitude. Based on my anecdotal knowledge of that type of injury, I find it highly doubtful that Cam plays this year. I’m even more shocked that Whitt didn’t go out and get a portal QB. Just can’t understand the reasoning and logic behind not getting one.

[stbone]

I was wrong, and it turns out our coaching staff was likely either lying or was irrationally optimistic.

[The Miami Ute]

It’s a blunder for sure…should have planned accordingly and didn’t.

[noneyadb]

Ludwig not having a game plan for Johnson is the bigger issue that is just getting pushed aside and everybody is on the “We need Rising” wagon. Oregon St was a huge red flag of not getting his guys in a position to succeed.
Ludwig and Harding need to get the offense going. Charmin ultra soft.

[2008 National Champ]

While I don’t disagree, the problem wasn’t only the game plan. Once Barnes got knocked out and Oregon State could blitz every play without fear, that’s where Ludwig has to come up with something to turn the tide.

Until then, they might not have been the plays I would have like to have seen called, there were opportunities that were scuttled by poor execution. I don’t want to say poor effort but there was a contrast in how I saw OSU receivers go for the ball vs Utah. A failed play is a failed play but that doesn’t always mean it’s a bad play call.

There was a slant early in the game that Johnson overthrew badly. Parks had a chance to take that to the house with a good pass. There was another time where Johnson two-hopped a receiver to the sideline who had a pretty big cushion to catch and make a move. No matter what anyone thinks of Johnson’s ability, those are standard passes that he not only can but needs to make. If Ludwig can’t call those routes, what can he?

[PlainsUte]

What if Cam’s doctor is a USC fan? Just asking…

[The Miami Ute]

Naah…I know this doctor…he’s an East Coast guy from Pittsburgh. He just has his practice in LA. I also know that he’s Lebanese.

[dleto]

For all the MDs on the board (actual or wannabe), how exactly is a doctor in LA making weekly assessments of Cam’s readiness to play? Seems like from one week to the next he would have almost no new information w/o some kind of examination and would be completely dependent on what Cam reports. Unless they’re doing weekly MRIs and sending him the results or something. Just sounds a little weird to me.

[2008 National Champ]

It’s not uncommon for the patient to be nowhere near the surgeon while rehabbing. My dad had back surgery down here in Arizona but lives in Washington half the year. He does periodic web meetings and when the surgeon wants a scan, x-ray, etc. he gets it done locally and it is sent to the surgeon. They then decide when and how much more he can do.

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