Rape culture?

[zeous]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4248492/Family-Iraqi-asylum-seekers-gang-raped-drunk-woman.html#article-4248492

Nah.

[Utah]

Are you really this disgusting? This story is a tragedy. Not some political statement. If you have any sort of decency, you’d remove this post. 

[zeous]

Tragedy? This is a vile, heinous, “disgusting”, “indecent” CRIME.  Yet you attack me and call me disgusting and indecent?  Best check your moral compass, sir.

How do that many in the same family participate in a rape like that, all of which but one express no remorse? And your response is seriously to attack me??  Go f**k yourself.

[Anonymous]

He forgot to call you racist, mysogynist, bigot, xenophobe. Hope I didn’t miss any. I do want to give full credit to the whiney losers. Maybe his job move to that small town of 6,000 people will straighten him up when he discovers that he is the sole liberal freak in town and the conservatives aren’t as bad as the liberal media propaganda made them out to be.

[Jumpmasterute]

Utah. Nice attempt to stifle news that doesn’t fit into your liberal narrative.

[Utah]

You reall are the bottom of the barrel, aren’t you? I don’t believe people are inherently evil…but, man, you are making me doubt my beliefs. 

[Jumpmasterute]

I can see it doesn’t take much for you to resort to name calling. Tell me again who’s at the bottom of the barrel?

[96GradAlum]

I doubt he’s evil per se. However, he is absolutely ignorant, intollerant and incapable of critical thinking 🙂

[Jumpmasterute]

So 96. To sum it up I’m all of these horrible things because my political views differ from yours? Moral high ground much? At least you broke from the liberal model and didn’t go straight to calling me a racist bigot.

[96GradAlum]

WestSlope is a climate change denier – ignorance … but he’s intitled to his opinion.  He’s also prone to using the term “libtard” – intollerance.  The critical thinking part was a little over the top, upon reflection.

If you wish to ascribe my comments to all conservatives well … that’s a leap.  

 

Jump, I appreciate your post!  I’ve allowed someone’s behavior (WestSlope) to get under my skin, and thus become a little intollerant myself.  I will correct that moving forward.   

[Riot West]

Lots of rapes at BYU…and then there’s the polygamist problem with underage and unwilling girls. And polygamy is Mormon doctrine so…

What Zeus is saying is that Mormons and Muslims have a culture of rape?

[Utah]

This is what these people don’t get and makes their follow up posts even more disgusting. I hope they aren’t LDS. 

That poor woman’s life is ruined. She’ll never get over this. Those men’s lives will be ruined in prison. 

This story is a tragedy. It’s has nothing to do with Muslims and a rape culture. It proves that Muslims have a rape culture as much as BYU’s problem proves Mormons have a rape culture. 

Its typical right wing, propaganda bulls**t. Grow up. 

[SkinyUte]

I guess I just don’t understand your end in mind for this constant stream of “muslims and/or refugees are evil” posts.

We’re all very aware of the issues and challenges that refugee populations present, for lots of different and very complex socio-economic reasons. They tend to be insular. They don’t integrate well. They even have their extremely small share of violent extremists (as does every ultra-religious sub-culture). We know all this already.

Are you trying to get the rest of us to hate Muslims? Fear refugees? Paint them all with the same broad brush you do? Agree with you that they should all be turned away? Sorry man, never gonna happen. For every awful story you dig up, there are a hundred others of refugee families that are humble, peaceful, normal, productive people that are just grateful to be given an opportunity to survive and escape the horror they were living in.

Maybe I’ll be proven wrong and will have to apologize to you when we’re all living under Sharia Law in 20 years. Somehow, I have my doubts.

[zeous]

Like or not, an ideological war with a physical political extension rages on.  The woman in this clip expresses it well, but consider the Nazi ideology for a moment instead of Islam.  The world was required to deal with it 70 years ago because it would not live peacefully with the rest of the world. 

The peaceful majority truly is irrelevant as long as the violent minority runs the show.  Denying that, defending that, silencing criticism of that, all serves the violent minority and further jeopardizes the peaceful majority not to mention assists in the spread of the ideology as more people submit and “convert” around the world. 

I held different opinions on this issue until I took the time to look at the other side of the story and listened to what ex-Muslims had to say about what is regularly taught, the methods used, etc.  Rape and sexual slavery is one of those methods, like it or not, and there is no shortage of evidence to support that claim. 

I found out about the above rape story because I follow an ex-Muslim activist on Twitter, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has a variety of first-hand knowledge to share with those willing to listen.

http://www.theahafoundation.org/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-sharia-an-oped-by-ayaan-hirsi-ali/

And the evidence is just far too significant to ignore.  A fight is on, whether we like it or not, and must be dealt with. 

Wise men learn from others’ mistakes.  Europe has made plenty of mistakes on this issue, and we would be wise to learn from it instead of importing millions like they have and repeating those mistakes.  Sharing indisputable evidence here is, I suppose, my way of cautioning my fellow countrymen while simultaneosly criticizing the ideology that threatens the world today, like Nazism did 70 years ago. 

At least 1,400 children were subjected to appalling sexual exploitation in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013, a report has found.

Rape is a weapon in this ideology.  Denying that only serves the violent minority.

[ladyinred]

Sharing indisputable evidence here is, I suppose, my way of cautioning my fellow countrymen while simultaneosly criticizing the ideology that threatens the world today, like Nazism did 70 years ago.

I realize that Nazism is everyone’s favorite false equivalency, and we can all hardly go a day without someone comparing X thing or person that they would like to vilify to Hitler. But in this case it’s especially false, because it was not the Muslims who invaded us, it is “us” that invaded them, destabilizing their countries going back centuries, sewing the seeds that resulted in much of the chaos we are seeing in the ME now. It is this chaos, instability, and war that they are fleeing in mass now. I find it incredible to level the accusation that it is their ideology that threatens the world today, and that we should slam the door on them, when it is a monster we helped create.

[zeous]

Well, sure, but prior attacks… I’ll avoid that line of argument because I don’t think it will get us anywhere. But let’s say I agree with you that “we” invaded them and struck the first blow. Just a couple points here:

1) Washington DC is not “we”. There’s some sort of mental illness rampant there and has been for some time, perhaps since 2001 or perhaps longer. Violent aggression is not something I value, and I will not claim to be part of any “we” who does. In other words, yes, we have our own set of people who can be classified as the violent minority in our culture. And we have a peaceful majority, just like Islam. The percentages may not be the same, but there is a commonality there.

2) Importing millions of the refugees is not the solution. Stopping the bombing is the solution. Helping them rebuild is the solution. Importing millions here only serves the violent minorities of both groups, and harms the peaceful majorities in both groups. See Europe as the primary evidence in support of that claim. Rome used to rule in horror by “divide and rule” tactics, keeping conquered tribes fighting each other instead of them. The billionaires, oligarchs and kings are all better off if that happens in America, Europe, and the rest of the Western world where the common people have governed themselves for a couple hundred years.

[ladyinred]

To #1, yes, why I put we in “”.
To #2, yes, ideally, but that’s not happening anytime soon. If I’m in Syria or Somalia, I’m getting the f*ck out with my kids yesterday, even if it means suffering racism/xenophobia wherever I go. These people can’t just wait around for war to end.

[zeous]

Yeah, I understand and empathize as well. However, one must wonder about the motive of creating so many refugees (and the accompanying resentment, anger, hatred, etc toward those in whose name the bombs are being dropped), and then bringing them into the land where the bombs come from.

[Utahute72]

One issue that most liberals are loathe to discuss is the cultural differences that inhibit assimilation by SOME muslims, particularly men.  Most other large immigrant groups are either from a judeo christian belief system or from a belief system that is more pliable in terms of interactions.  There seems to be a thread of mysogyny that runs through the muslim faith that runs counter to the basic belief systems of western culture (yes, even BYU).  Until we come to grips with how to successfully integrate this group into our society there will always be friction.

[Newbomb Turk]

“most liberals are loathe to discuss”???? Where do you get this stuff?

[ladyinred]

Jesus christ dude, did someone named Mohammed steal your girl? What is with this anti-Muslim vendetta? You really had to reach into the depths to cherry pick this one – the Daily f*cking Mail? If I took 5 minutes, I could easily find many articles, from higher quality sources no less, that show such ”rape culture” on college campuses, Christian places of worship, and reaching across just about any ethnic group and religion. The common denominator in ”rape culture” is men. Obviously not all men, but it could be argued that any society with any men is a rape culture. Anywhere that subjugates women to any degree, which is almost everywhere on earth that I can think of.

[zeous]

I am anti-rape, anti-violent aggression, and generally anti bad ideas.  Political Islam promotes and uses a variety of the worst ideas as weapons to control its people through violence, fear and psychological abuse. 

Christianity used these tactics in the past far more than today and we common people finally wised up to it (our ancestors did, anyway), fought it, and won over the span of hundreds of years.  That battle continues on today, but I do not wish us to fall for similar bulls**t from another ideology just because it’s from a different part of the world. 

Yet here you are defending it.  Is that really what you wish to do?  Do you agree with the ideology or do you see the victims of the ideology (the abused, compliant, peaceful majority of the followers) as being one and the same as the set of ideas that constitutes the oppressive side of the religion itself?

Criticizing Islam and the crimes of its folloers (those who do commit crimes) does not imply promotion of Christianity or Atheism or Judaism or Buddism or any other ism. 

It is okay to criticize negative aspects of Islam and Christianity and Atheism and Judaism all at the same time.

[ladyinred]

Yet here you are defending it. Is that really what you wish to do? Do you agree with the ideology or do you see the victims of the ideology (the abused, compliant, peaceful majority of the followers) as being one and the same as the set of ideas that constitutes the oppressive side of the religion itself?

Look, I even defend Mormons when I think they’re being unfairly attacked. It doesn’t mean I agree with all their actions, or subscribe to the religion. (In case you hadn’t noticed by now). What I see is you, repeatedly, and harshly, maligning an entire religion. My reflex is to defend them where I think you’re being unfair, (which is often) and I reject the implication that I’m therefore somehow accepting of radical Islamists.

Sure, there is evidence of misogyny within Islam. I’m not arguing with that, does that make you happy? At the same time, in case you didn’t notice, 62 million Americans just did a collective ”meh” and elected a president who was pretty unapologetic about his pussy grabbing remarks. We have “rape culture” on some of our college campuses, a catholic preist rape problem, just to name a few examples. What moral high ground have we earned on this matter?

[zeous]

Yes, you are exactly right. We have our fair share of problems and problematic people already.

How much have you actually learned about the teachings of Islam? How much have you listened to ex-Muslims and their criticisms? If not much, how do you know my criticism is unfair?

[ladyinred]

I have both read about Islam and read these accounts yes, and I feel like I can relate a lot as an ex-Mormon actually.

This narrative of “those people” are incompatible with our society can result in some of the behavior here( some of which kinds of behavior is already happening here since Trump was elected)

Even if you don’t personally engage in it, the rhetoric can get picked up by people who are looking to pick a fight or at least fan the flames.

[zeous]

So can I, also having grown up LDS. It was a very difficult decision for me to leave, and the techniques used by the LDS church (these days anyway) pale in comparison to those used by Islam. So I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be to leave it.

But most of these refugees are not trying to leave Islam. See Europe.

[Utah]

Rape Culture seems to follow “religious men” around. 

Go chew on that for awhile, right? 

This isn’t a muslim problem. This is a religious men problem. For whatever reason, God seems to allow men to do what they want with women. 

[zeous]

There is some merit in that argument, though I would riff on it a bit and say the commonality is men who are not held to account. Which is common among religious leadership because the faithful see those men as unquestionable, beyond criticism, representatives of their god of choice.

The same can apply to women and men in a secular setting as well, which is why we have identified “equality under the law” and “no one is above the law” as high values in our society. Also why corrupt men and women would undermine such values and put themselves beyond account, like kings and unquestionable religious despots do.

[ladyinred]

Edit to remove, replied in the wrong place

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