Thoughts on NIL from a BYU fan (I come in peace)

[byufan]

A lot has been said about and NIL for BYU (MBB specifically). Some unsolicited thoughts from a BYU fan:

– It’s odd to the BYU fanbase that Utah fans seem so annoyed by the NIL amounts and Ryan Smith specifically. BYU has historically and infamously been insanely cheap (there are famous stories of equipment guys not giving players new socks when they needed them and cutting corners on travel etc.), while–at least in our minds–Utah has the old-money East bench big donors. So in the mind of a BYU fan, the new BYU-centric tech money simply levels the playing field with Utah in what has long been an unbalanced situation.

– Big 12 money – Keep in mind BYU was languishing in Independence for a decade+ while Utah was raking in money from the PAC 12 (though that doesn’t seem all that substantial looking back). And all the while managed to run a profitable AD. So new Big 12 money is a boon to existing programs and facilities. And we’ll certainly notice that increase more than you all will.

– Taxpayers – Due to the Olympics and state-funded improvements, RES and other facilities get upgrades unrelated to the typical AD funding. (Probably mostly and only true in the case of the Olympics and RES). Whereas BYU has to raise money for all that stuff. Another reason we feel this ‘new money’ is simply leveling the playing field. Said another way: if BYU wants to upgrade LES, there will be a major fundraising drive. If Utah wants to upgrade RES, the Olympic committee does it before 2034.

– Ute fans seemed to love NIL when everyone got a pickup from Ken Garff. But now when BYU is spending to get blue chip basketball recruits, suddenly every Utah fan in my life is annoyed at BYU’s NIL success.

– As an aside…it’s interesting that BYU’s donor base and NIL spending has NOT yet transferred into football. There are 8ish very very wealthy families that are pouring major resources into basketball, but not yet football. I have theories as to why this is the case.

As to the Holy War…I fully expect Utah to figure out their QB situation and throw 5 TDs and play their best game of the year.

[lgt4141]

Those are very interesting points.

It is the rivalry. Fans of each school will question and probably hate anything that gives the rival school a real or perceived advantage. There are probably Utah fans who hate the Utah Hockey Club only because Ryan Smith owns it and brought it to Utah. I am a big fan of the Utah Hockey Club!

This season is a reminder to me that watching sports is a roller coaster ride. Enjoy it when your team is playing great and hope the down times end quickly.

To BYU fans, I say “Enjoy the ride!” It won’t last forever as we Utah fans know.

[Anfernee]

As a Utah fan I can comfortably say that “annoyed” translates to jealous 99% of the time in this situation. Hopefully our basketball team will be a surprise. But in a good way. Unlike football. 😂

[byufan]

Big 12 basketball is completely insane. It’s fun, but literally every game is losable in conference. I was convinced that we’d win like 2 conference games last year. Godspeed. Big 12 basketball is a different beast.

The level of physicality is unreal.

[AlohaUte]

It’s sad, but Utah will struggle mightly this season and I don’t see an avenue for Utah basketball to be relevant for a very long time in the Big-12. It will take a very special coach who can out pace their expected win totals consistently, is an incredible recruiter, and major NIL money.

[Tednab]

Thanks for coming over .. NIL imo is a big reason we’re failing this year ; entitled kids .. like anything else. Take the NBA for example the minute you pay a big contract to any player their production goes down .. in the past these kids were playing to get drafted into the NFL, so you were getting the best out of them . Now you’re paying a 18 year old kid a million + straight out of high school , unproven, immature, and as a coach you have to balance giving him the playing time that he’s doesn’t deserve yet you’ve paid top dollar for. Takes a different type of coach to figure that out

[AlohaUte]

The thing is entitled kids is an issue for all schools, not just Utah. It’s an adjustment for coaching staffs to figure out how to navigate it. I personally don’t think there is a chance on earth that if there were no NIL involved and certainly if the ability to transfer wasn’t as “wild west” as it is today, that Isaac Wilson would have been named the back up or starter. The coaches know that a lot of money was invested (which means who ever is paying Isaac is pressuring the coaches) and it’s quite likely that there was a subtle threat of transfer if Isaac didn’t get playing time. It’s a crazy stupid CFB world and I fully expect old time coaches like Whit to retire sooner than later because this coaching environment can’t be fun or fulfilling. It sounds like the among the worst jobs in sports (whereas a fired CFB coach is the best job in the world).

[AlohaUte]

Are Ute Fans really that bent on the Smith’s and BYU NIL? Or is it just what Twitter Ute fans are reacting to? I honestly don’t hear much from Ute fans outside of Twitter on the issue and Twitter Ute fans are both an extremely small percentage of us and they are the worst fans of any fans of any team any where.

[Tednab]

Lol .. I could careless .. Look the jazz still suck , no matter how many different jerseys you come up with .. lipstick on a pig .. if and when that gets figure out , then I might get concerned. I prefer we go after the blue collar kids that have a potential rather than paying the 4-5 stars kids money up front

[SteelUte]

Smith can do what he wants, its just us taking pot shots at your program. However, I do feel p**sed that the owner of three local professional franchises supports your team and not ours. It does make me like the Jazz, UHC and Real less. If he would donate some (and maybe he does) to the Utes it would make me swallow my disgust for his blue passion and support those teams full heartedly. Garff’s do some sponsoring of BYU. I see it as smart business, keep both fanbases happy that you are spreading the love.
Also, I had a random thought the other day, specifically regarding this NBA prospect the Jazz are hoping to get next year. Could Ryan Smith be torn between offering him NIL money to transfer to bYu next season instead of entering the draft? Lets say the Jazz don’t get the 1st pick. Could Smith, offer him 20million to come play for byU instead of going pro and entering the Nba draft the next season when the Jazz have the 1st pick? I see it as a potential parking space for Smith and a slight conflict of interest as unlikely as it is to happen.

[Yergensen]

This is an interesting hypothetical.

[byufan]

I’ve had that thought. My understanding is he can’t have much direct contact with prospects due to his ownership status, but IDK. All of this stuff for every school is done through 3rd parties anyway, so it may not matter.

[krindor]

As a chaos gremlin, I would love this

Dybantsa takes $6M (mostly from Smith) to come play for BYU. He’s everything he’s reported to be, a Wooden finalist, the obvious #1 pick, and he leads BYU to a #8 finish.

But then, #3 seed BYU is somehow upset by #14 Duquesne in the first round of the NCAA tournament. And shockingly, Kevin Young convinced Dybantsa that he can’t go out like that, plus he’ll be developed as well by Young as he would in the NBA anyway. So Dybantsa surprises everyone and offers to come back for another year, another $6M. BYU fans/boosters are ecstatic.

And then, in May, the Jazz beat the lottery odds and get the #1 pick. And suddenly Ryan Smith no longer wants to donate NIL for Dybantsa…and will be angry if anyone else at BYU does.

It’s a far-fetched scenario obviously… But the chaos and tension of it would make for a really fascinating story

[Red Rhino]

NIL is an issue for all teams, but I believe some teams are more equipped than others to handle poorly appropriated NIL money, (i.e. players that were promised big $ but don’t pan out). I honestly don’t think it can go on much longer the way it is currently constructed. I would also venture a guess that half of the BIG and SEC cannot continue to function in this environment.

[SantaVaca]

You bring up some interesting points.

First of all, I try to tell myself that in life, things are never as good or as bad as they seem. However, right now, I’m pretty discouraged about my beloved Utes. We are going to finish in last place in both football and basketball. Things really seem to be hitting us pretty hard the last few years. I don’t know if this is Harlan’s fault, Whit’s fault, Coach K’s fault, or something completely beyond our control. But this is definitely a low point in Utah athletics, imo. Have you been to a basketball game? It’s beyond sad that we only get about 3500 fans out to a place that used to be one of the toughest places to play in the entire country.

On the flip side, BYU has so many built in advantages with so many millionaire donors that are willing to donate to BYU that it has completely ruined my outlook on the Utes going forward. I have completely stopped listening to sports radio, reading blogs, or even watching ESPN. The thought that Ryan Smith (and several others) can just buy any player they want and can, in turn, buy BYU a championship, just seems so wrong to me. I also don’t like Phil Knight being able to do the same thing with Oregon. Maybe I’m just being naive and you bring up a lot of good points that maybe Utah has had some pretty big advantages over BYU for 15+ years and maybe this is just the universe balancing things out a little bit. I don’t know. I just know that I sold my tickets to the BYU game and I am going to miss a Utah game for the first time in over 35 years. I’ve never seen Utah look this bad in football since the Jim Fassel years.

Maybe I’m overreacting but things are really bad right now for Utah. We can’t get a first down to save our lives and I doubt the basketball team wins more than 2 or 3 conference games. How a once proud university could have fallen so far, so fast is beyond me.

I really liked your post and you seem like a decent guy, but I think you’re underestimating how much money is being poured in to BYU right now. And at the same time, how little money is coming in at Utah. Very few universities have the alumni that can compete with Ryan Smith. I heard a stat that Utah’s total NIL for basketball is $1.5 million. That’s for the entire team. If the rumors are true, Ryan is going to pay >$4 million just for one recruit next year! Ryan Smith will cause irrevocable damage to amateur sports that this probably will be the end of college football and basketball as we know it.

For this reason, I’ve completely ignored the Utah hockey club and Jazz this year. I used to watch every Jazz game I could and would rarely miss a game. All that is different now. I can’t, in good conscience, support the Jazz if the money is just going to get funneled into BYU. I’m LDS. It has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with why I loved college sports to begin with. I hate that scumbags like Ryan Smith can just buy their way to a championship. It just doesn’t seem right.

The last thing I want to bring up is I wish someone at a reputable local news source would do an deep dive into our NIL situation and how the local teams are doing compared to other universities. It seems that no one wants to talk about it. I know a few former athletes and all of them HATE Harlan with a passion. I would love to see Harlan’s opinion on NIL and what he’s doing to keep Utah relevant. All I know is Chris Hill took a midlevel WAC / MWC team in the 1980s and turned into back to back PAC12 champions. Since Harlan has been here, Utah has fallen to the bottom of the conference in both sports, and our rival is spending millions of dollars more than us every year.

I’m sorry to be such a downer. Maybe Scalley will clean house and bring in enough firepower next year so that we can try to compete and maybe even score a couple of touchdowns against the mighty, mighty University of Houston or University of Arizona. But I’m not holding my breath.

[byufan]

I’m with you on the overall take about NIL. It’s ruining/changing college sports. But again, Ute fans loved it when Ken Garff showed up with new Dodge Rams.

And I will say, it is a bit disorienting for BYU fans who are used to our AD being SO cheap–like famously cheap–to suddenly have endless resources (and btw it isn’t just Ryan, it’s several uber-wealthy families that are suddenly hyper-engaged).

We’ve just been at such a disadvantage to Utah for a decade + (not to mention the Olympic updates to RES), that it does feel good to be on equal footing again.

Regarding basketball for you all…I wish I had words of encouragement, but…I do not. Bill Self said he thought the conference champion would have 5-7 losses in conference. That’s wild.

[SantaVaca]

Ya. I think you’re 100% right. One thing I also think about is how we should have destroyed you in basketball the past 15 years. We were in the mighty PAC12 and you guys were in the lowly WCC. Yet, you beat us 80% of the time and most years, it wasn’t even that close. Let’s not even talk about the Jimmer game.

I think it’s a testament of how hard it’s going to be for Utah to beat BYU going forward. In hindsight, we shouldn’t have ever lost a recruit to BYU while you were in the WCC. Yet, I don’t think we won more than 1 or 2 recruiting battles. Even though you guys were playing in high school gyms, and we were playing against UCLA, Arizona, and Oregon every year. And yet most high school players still preferred to play at BYU over what ever crappy product we were putting out. Now, you throw in millions of dollars in NIL, and I don’t seeing us ever beating you more than a game or two every decade. Sigh. I’m going to go take a walk and try to figure out how to change my life. Haha.

[byufan]

You beat us last year. I was at Huntsman for that game.

BTW, Pres Randall came around and shook every BYU fan’s hand he could find. Good gesture.

[BD]

“Ute fans loved it when Ken Garff showed up with new Dodge Rams.”

True. But none of us expected a Dodge Ram to suddenly bring in the top half-dozen high-4* and 5* players to Utah either.

[AZUTE]

Utah has old money that they have to beg for.

BYU has a new money donor that has openly said the Athletic program will want for nothing financially.

If Smith runs the Cougs the way he’s run the Jazz so far I’m not worried.

[Rick Walker]

Yeah I actually think BYU basketball will flop as hard as Utah Football has. Sure you’ve got a lot of top recruits but none of these European guys wanna win March Madness because they didn’t grow up with those traditions. This is just a nine month stepping stone for them to get into the NBA and they won’t care about BYU winning. It feels set up for a me me me type team and not a we we we type team.

[Utah#1]

BYU fan, I can sympathize and agree with your view point for the most part. However, the only thing I found hypocritical was when the Utah state legislature comprised of some BYU alum occupying legislature seats launched an audit a few years ago on Utah’s NIL program obvious to the fanbase and to local and national media that tracked the story and knew what it was truly about. While they do have a responsibility as government officials for a checks and balances, the timing and manner of the audit for the most part was Utah public universities, specifically Utah, as NIL was growing in popularity. Now that BYU has some Big12 money rolling their way and a billionaire donor to support both basketball and football, regardless of their “private” school status, should BYU get audited the way Utah was to hold BYU accountable for how they’re using their NIL program? Just saying.

[2008 National Champ]

regardless of their “private” school status, should BYU get audited the way Utah was to hold BYU accountable for how they’re using their NIL program?

No, they shouldn’t. It smacked of conflict of interest when the audit was done but a state supported school has different rules than a private school does.

[Utah#1]

Understand and agree, but private schools should still be audited as there should be no exceptions to the rules when it comes to auditing and checks and balances both private and public institutions as all are not immune to corruption or nefarious activity. Let’s see, USC a private school ring a bell and had their 2004 or 05 national championship stripped.

[2008 National Champ]

You’re conflating things. The Utah Legislature is not the NCAA.

The NCAA has the power, or at least had the power, to enforce any of its rules against member schools of which USC was one. The California Legislature didn’t revoke any football titles from SC for breaking NCAA rules.

Unless there has been an audit that I am unaware of, not living in Utah I very well could have missed something, I believe you are referring to the audit of Utah’s books a few years back that is believed to have been prompted by parochial school alumni. As a state sponsored University, Utah is subject to increased scrutiny since public funds support it. The parochial school doesn’t use public funds so the Utah legislature can’t say dick about what they do.

The latest rule regarding public schools having to report NIL deals is distasteful but so far the courts have agreed with it. In my opinion, unless the University is a participant in those contracts, they should not be a matter of public record. But I don’t get a vote.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

You bring up some great points byufan. I wish we had a sugar daddy to bring the BB program back to life. Before BYU was winning and we were losing cougarboard went after the Garffs saying boycott their dealerships.

It’s funny both fan bases complain about any advantage the other has and condemns it until they start winning then it’s ok. Ryan Smith can do anything he wants with his money. I quit watching the Jazz because of the bad product and the NBA new style of play.

Congrats on a great year in FB and I hope we can bring you back to earth Nov. 9.

[Rick Walker]

I’m with you Jim, my loss of love for the jazz was mildly impacted by Ryan smiths new yellow jerseys and majorly impacted by the the product that his been the nba as of late.

[TruckStopTerrors]

I’ll just post something similar to what I did in the other thread discussing it. Let me preface this by saying I’m not LDS.

I think BYU is playing by the rules that have been laid out by the NCAA. You have no arguments from me there. I wish we had a Ryan Smith bankrolling a lot of these big dollar moves, or a Phil Knight.

The issue here…. I’m trying to take my bias as much as I can out of the conversation. So I would argue that BYU is a representation of the LDS Faith. I don’t think there’s an argument they aren’t. Now, here’s where it gets a little morally questionable if you’re a religious institution. Whether it’s the institution itself or boosters, it’s not a great look going out and potentially paying any player millions of dollars just to play for your university. In the grand scheme of things, sports should be almost a complete afterthought for a religious institution. When you’re talking about paying a basketball player potentially 4.5 million dollars even as a booster, an outside observer might say cynically, it’s good that they have their priorities straight with everything happening in the world currently…. Even if it’s not BYU paying the player, you can see how that would cast the religion in a bad light. Especially when at the end of the day, basketball, football, or any other sport are just silly games when compared to the actual religion’s stated purpose. So even if they believe it’s good that their sports spread the faith and or awareness of the faith, there’s going to be some negativity around spreading that too if that kind of money is being spent on sports and not actual charitable ventures. Somebody like Smith or a BYU fan might argue I can do both…. To some extent, sure. You’re still giving a basketball player 4.5 million that you could’ve added to a charitable donation total. It’s really just a bad look.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[BD]

I’m LDS (not always a good one however) and I think you are spot on correct here.

Byu supporters are trying to justify their “pay to play” NIL as a way to promote Byu and hence the church. Well I can think of 50,000 better ways to do just that.

Paying much more than anyone else – It’s pure arrogance. Or, to use another word that resonates with church members, “pride”. Paying millions of dollars for players that are above in $$ what every other program can offer (pay to play) is NOT a good look at all for byu and the church.

And it appears to go against what one church leader said warning Byu about a “pay to play” culture. (See my post in the TSPP category.)

Byu fans reading this will just say “you’re just a jealous Ute fan”. Maybe so but honestly i don’t even like basketball at all. But I do hate (moat of the time anyway – there are some good things) the culture in the Wasatch front church even more, and the pay to play NIL is just that. And byu fans represent the worst of it, and they don’t see it.

Ok off my soapbox now.

[Jim McMahon]

It’s a valid concern.

However, if there are several uber wealthy LDS families that are bankrolling this, then that’s their choice. I would get your argument it if it were the institution of BYU or the LDS church using tithing money or something. But that’s not the case here. You have several LDS families who have probably already paid millions in tithings/donations to the church on their own. I’m sure many of them support other charitable causes too. If they then want to use their discretionary income to support NIL and BYU sports, that’s their choice.

The reality is that every other major university does the same thing. Every major university has huge donors that help out. Notre Dame is religious and does it and we don’t hear any beef about it. So what’s the difference here?

Furthermore, I live outside of Utah. Many people here know BYU, but with the season they’re having, I have so many random people asking me about BYU at work. Now I’m not out hear actively proselytizing because of it, but it is interesting that BYU seems to be so much more recognizable right now with the season they are having. And BYU has started to do some pretty cool things in the B12, like highlighting opposing fanbases with stories about them, etc.

So it could turn out to be a great thing for BYU and the LDS church, if BYU can consistently win.

[TruckStopTerrors]

Nobody is arguing they shouldn’t be able to do what they want with their money. Again, it’s a bad look whether it’s BYU or one of their boosters paying big money for a player of any sport. Because as an outsider looking in at the faith you’re going to be cynical. Regardless if the institution is putting up the money or not, there’s a connection to the University and the negative appearance that they’re spending a lot of money on something that shouldn’t be very important to a religious institution, which is sports. So I stand by my original post. It’s legal and, nothing nefarious is happening according to the rules, it just really looks bad. I think that’s why the article came out regarding the position of the church on it.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Thanks for another good post. I agree with everything you’ve pointed out. It’s just human nature to complain about your rival when they’re winning and you’re not.

I have followed Cougarboard for a couple years and the roles were completely reversed last year. Boycott the Garffs and Utah is just buying their teams while we would never pay players they should come to get the BYU experience. Winning trumps all. BYU turned a blind eye on your namesake McMahon when he played and blatantly disregarded the honor code. The wealthy LDS donors would be welcomed with open arms to fund our BB team. Huntsman was a wealthy LDS donor for us.

[SteelUte]

I agree with this thought- you can do whatever you want with your money, but there are consequences- people will be turned off by the spending and high level spending that seems to be moving forward at byu- I’m a L.ds, and know many non LDS who are turned off by the amount of money that is spent on the temples. You can try to explain what they mean, what winning and exposure means, but it can always be argued ya but what else could you do with that money. Would Jesus pay someone 4 million dollars to put a ball in a hoop? Just a thought.

[byufan]

Well that’s a giant question regarding the Church and their operations at-large. There’s probably a lot of things the Church spends money on that Jesus wouldn’t.

But, I would say…Jesus isn’t paying AJ Dybantsa. Boosters are.

[utefansince79]

Will be interesting to see how the high-profile well-paid athletes playing in the Marriot Center perform. On paper they look so strong, but can the newcomers all play together as the best team?

Utah’s (and BYU’s) greatest teams making deep runs in March over the years were groups of players who had many years together. But it is a whole new situation nowadays.

[Author]

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