Unfortunate trend continues

[Ghost of the HEB]

Here is a selection of game-by-game points given up by our opponents this season (I’ve added ASU and updated each line with last week’s results):

– Baylor vs P4 opponents: 23, 38, 34, 43
– USU vs FBS opponents: 48, 38, 45, 62, 50
– OKState vs P4 opponents: 31, 22, 42, 38
– Arizona vs FBS opponents: 39, 31, 10, 28, 41
– ASU vs P4 opponents: 23, 30, 35, 31, 19

The observation remains true — The lowest number in each of the lines is what Utah scored against them. There is too much talent on this offense to blame this trend on Cam’s injuries or IW being a freshman. This is a coaching problem.

[Tony (admin)]

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing by asking you this. Please elaborate on your conclusion why it isn’t Cam/Wilson, and why it is coaching. Perhaps it is both.

[UteThunder]

Passing up FGs on 4th down inside the 30 would be one reason it’s coaching. (I hate analytics)

[DataUte]

I think one could argue that the playcalling relies on execution, so Cam/Isaac not executing would lead to unconverted opportunities (how many redzone or close 4th downs were not converted). But maybe that playcalling isn’t what matches the talent/skill level of Cam/Isaac at the time, so they need to make changes. Also, if a team is stacking the box and making Isaac beat them, maybe a run up the middle isn’t the right call but a screen pass (we haven’t seen enough of those IMO) helps the qb out rather than a traditional route throw (which maybe Isaac isn’t completely there yet). So that would be on the coaches.

If the focus is still on TOP, that also depressed the scoring to limit the other opponent’s touches. So, in that argument, we actually don’t mind being lower scoring as long as the other team is even lower (defense keeps them down). Unfortunately, AZ started with two long drives, unconverted 4th downs, and 0 points to start the game when maybe with better playcalling AND execution, we start it off 14-0.

[Ghost of the HEB]

If we learned anything from 2023 it was that we HAD to have a viable offensive plan ready in the event healthy Cam was not available. We have the best WR we’ve had since Carrington in Singer, seasoned vets in Money, Pittman and Mcclain (who is healthy again), the deepest TE room we’ve ever had, one of the best O-lines we’ve had in terms of recruiting rankings, and Bernard is currently averaging the most YPC we’ve seen through 100 carries since 2019 Zack Moss. Yet with all that, we’re still the lowest-scoring P4 offense (in some cases FBS) against each of our opponents? We have the horses and the weapons. Unless you’ve had to drop down to 3rd and 4th QBs, the offense’s ability to score points shouldn’t be crippled just because your known-to-be injury-plagued QB has more injuries. That’s something you’ve been preparing for and working on since start of 2023.

[2008 National Champ]

stop serenading me with your beautiful words

[Gilly Boy 94]

Utah may have the best TE room in the country. how well do we think its being utilized? Lohner has had maybe 3-4 targets this season and Kuithe has been highly underutilized. it feels like King, Ryan and Bentley all moved to a foreign country. Micah Bernard has proven to be one of the better running backs in the nation this year……and every game, when he seems to be ‘finding a groove’, coaches shut him down. dudes averaging 6.5 yards per carry, LET HIM COOK! we have decent to good receivers in parks, pittman and singer and for some reason it appears they struggle to get open when other teams with average receivers don’t seem to struggle with this. it seems as though the offensive schemes are not allowing for success by the receivers. where are the jet sweeps for kuithe? where are the screen passes that BYU is using when teams are bringing heat? where are the shallow crossing routes for the TE’s? Why do we stop running the ball when it seems to be effective? when a play call does work and gets chunk yards……we never see it again. just seems like ludwig is out of ideas. and the defense is playing with zero emotion. it pains me to say it, but right now, byu’s defense looks like what i have typically seen from our utes. this year, the utes look slow, uninspired and apathetic…..much like byu has looked like for years. i hope and pray that this ‘turning of the page’ lights a fire and the team finds some inspiration and the coaches coach like their backs are against the wall.

[UteThunder]

Ouch. So, in other words, bet the under against TCU.

[DataUte]

Please – so then Isaac will somehow light it up and we find an identity.

[2008 National Champ]

Bad offense (#82 scoring, #58 ypg) v Bad defense (#104 scoring, #42 ypg). Optimist says Bad offense will take advantage of bad defense. Pessimist says both will perform better than norm but still be on the bad side. Wager accordingly

[Anfernee]

Do we have ANY reason to believe Ludwig will let Wilson do more? Or “have fun and play more loose” like others have said? Whitt and Ludwig don’t change. I’d love for Isaac to just ball out, get super confident and want to be our QB1 for years to come. But how can anyone believe Ludwig would let that happen or give IW the opportunities to be that.

[pedro]

Sorry Ghost, there are so many things that go into a winning program beyond coaching or, as you pointed out, QB play.

* Team Work
* Captains\leadership
* Mojo
* Injuries to key players (If you don’t think losing O’toole, Reid and Cam hurt, your insane. Also if you think Barton is as good as he was, he isn’t…. yet)
* Momentum
* luck

[AZUTE]

The 19 against ASU was a direct result of Cam’s latest injury and Coaching for not replacing him.

Arizona was a multitude of reasons. From complacent players to Lud being to conservative to injuries on D

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Conservative offense: seems instead of playing to win we play to not lose. 2-3 tight end sets that don’t spread the field and easy to defend. The thinking has been with Wilson keep it simple and don’t make any mistakes and our defense will hold them to 1-2 scores and we can win by running game, short passes and control the clock.

Nick Saban said on game day a couple weeks ago times have changed that it’s hard to win unless you make some big plays. Big plays cost us both AU AsU games. How many big plays have we made other than the Stanley tds against SUU and a couple Bernard runs. Get the ball to the playmakers!!

[2008 National Champ]

“… in space”. get the ball to the playmakers in space!

What did Ohio State do in the 2021 Rose Bowl? They ran 2 receivers deep, another on an 18 yard in and their best receiver Smith-whatever on an 8-12 yard drag route. Granted, Utah pass rush was stymied all game but you ended up with 4 legitimate options every play and DB’s can’t cover that.

If the deep routes have the receiver even with the DB and his back is turned you throw it to the shoulder away from leverage. Deep routes initially covered, just hit the deep in. And if you aren’t absolutely confident in those 3 options on any particular play, just put it in your best receivers hands with 10 yards of cushion because he’s had plenty of time to find the open spot against an inferior defender. Might even work out to a record throwing day.

Or you could call inside zone all day and hope the defense decides not to try to stop it a couple of times.,,

[UM4G]

Exactly this, Stanley is so fast but it feels like he’s been irrelevant since SUU. I would love to see more designed plays to get him in open space. Even if it’s just a jet sweep, something.

[Anfernee]

Everything being said in this thread is exactly what we all said after Arizona and during the bye week.

[EagleMountainUte]

I think the best example is Oklahoma State. I don’t know if Ludwig even knew Rising didn’t play.
Wilson stayed entirely in shotgun. The scheme never really changed or developed. Then you see the same sort of trends where the scheme doesn’t really fit Wilson’s strengths.

Notre Dame dodge a bullet Ludwig has gone back to his uninspired and moronic scheming. The absolute worst play call came against ASU. The Kuithe wildcat and you have an injured Rising line up in the slot effectively making it a 10:11.

[2008 National Champ]

wait, you didn’t think Rising was a legitimate threat to catch the ball on that play? surely you cannot be suggesting that he was just going to stand there and be anything more than a decoy. because I was sold that the intent was for him to make a diving play in the corner of the end zone. unfortunately, ASU sniffed it out and Kuithe had to take a sack but man, that was an excellent design that should have worked 99.9% of the time 🙂

[Anfernee]

Or the Charlie Vincent wildcat in first red zone trip with a maimed Cam lined out as a receiver.

[RustyShackleford]

That play would have 100% worked if Vincent hadn’t fumbled. Money Parks was wide open on the end around.

[thirtyfour-thirtyone]

I’m excited to see what happens when Wilson is 100% THE guy. I also think our “win the time of possession” strategy probably plays a role in the points-scored issue (which falls under coaching).

[Yergensen]

We are ranked top 10 in offensive time of possession.

We are ranked ~85th in red zone productivity.

This is a losing formula.

[Anfernee]

AL gets paid so much money just to drive our entire offensive into the Ludwig Landfill.

[Author]

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