Utah’s QB dilemma

[UteDuke]

Anyone else getting extremely tired of how the QB situation is being handled? I love Cam, but if what the insiders on this board are saying about him taking the majority of the QB1 reps this last week during practice before deciding not to play, that is just insane. Johnson needs all the reps he can get. Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but I believe it should be Johnson’s team until someone proves that they can take it from him.
This week’s game is huge. A loss here would likely eliminate any room for error in getting back to the Pac-12 championship game. If there is any doubt that Cam is ready to go, can we please at least give Johnson the best possible chance of success? We’ve proven that we can win with Johnson! Let’s not sink the team on the day-to-day health of one player!

[DrahtUte]

I think part of a coaches job is to take calculated risks. Putting reps into Cam right now is a calculated risk which just hasn’t paid off yet.

I don’t see Kyle changing his strategy at this point though after getting this far into it – especially where we’re still winning with what he’s doing.

[ProudUte]

I’m with you Duke. Johnson needs reps big time. This is a tough one for the coaching staff.

[Ute2]

Agreed! I hope they decided last night who the starter is this week.

If it’s true that cam is in a weird head space then that’s scary. Sounds like some major anxiety to me, poor kid. And I’m sure the pressure is immense.

I’d almost tell him to take a week at the beach in cali and to come back when he’s ready to be the man again. This is starting to look like a major sports psychology issue, which I don’t blame him…. Dang.

I’m any case, no more splitting the baby!

That’s my vote, anyhow…

[DataUte]

Agree – l-loss and there is little room for error. I’m guessing a 1-loss team and a 2-loss team (with tie-breakers) will be in the CCG. No one is getting out of conference play unscathed, but we have @USC, Ore, @UW coming up and going to be hard to win all of those (if any if we can’t improve on our current offense). Beating OSU would keep some momentum going into Cal and the BYE before a brutal 2nd half of the season.

[UTE98]

Does Kyle not understand a sunk cost?

There is no use continuing down the path. The time, energy and money are lost at this point. Just move on and quit trying to recoup the loss.

I’m now in the Nate Johnson camp for the rest of the year as the #1 QB. Stop wishing and start working on what’s best going forward. I’m now in the camp this year is NJ’s. Pick a horse and ride it.

[cj13]

Whitt knows maybe just a little bit more than you do. He obviously wouldn’t give Cam reps if he wasn’t close. I do hope that Whitt gets on this board and finally learns what a sunk cost is so that he realized he shouldn’t give Cam reps…

[bopahull]

According to what Onlyu has said, Cam is physically ready to play. He apparently didn’t feel like he could against UCLA. I can’t be in Cams head to understand this but I can’t blame him for it. Hopefully he can get his psyche worked out and return soon.
As much as I love what he has done for the team. After all, he is one of the best QBs in the history of the school. I think it would be far more helpful to treat NJ as Qb1 and give him QB1 reps. Treat CR as qb2 and give him the QB2 reps. I think Nate needs all the reps he can get if he has to start.
When Cam decides for certain he is going to play, which I truly hope is this Friday, Let him get those reps.

[22Ute22]

Our coaching staff has had constant mishandling of the QB situation this year. It’s downright pathetic.

Didn’t get a portal Qb, had Brandon Rose live during camp, and now they are preparing for the best possible outcome rather than the worst possible outcome. The worst possible outcome is Cam Rising taking all the reps from a guy who desperately needs them, only to not play the game. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Unless Cam is actually cleared, this isn’t his team, and he should not get ANY reps.

[Tednab]

Season is almost half over at this point and we have no offensive identity.. we’re working against the odds to 3 repeat at this point; injuries are taking a toll .. my conspiracy theory is we’re not as bad as we the fans think, we’re saving our starters for the big games ; however I thought that would start against FUCLA .

[Tony (admin)]

Those live reps may have been the difference maker for the defense though…

[bopahull]

Not that that may not be true, but I still think Nate Johnson has a more urgent need for those reps.

[Rick]

I agree with Tony. This defense is tackling so much better this year than last and if that is due to live reps then so be it! If we tackled this season the way we did at the start of last season we would be 1-3 right now.

[stbone]

Reading posts last year, I saw fan complaining about how the defense was too soft, and how coaches should have gone harder in camp. This year, we are saying coaches should have gone softer in camp. As far as I can tell, no matter what, we won’t be happy.

Given what I have seen, I wouldn’t give up the current defensive production for Brandon Rose. The defense is all-time great, potentially the best in all of FBS this year, and we have an developing quarterback. If we had gone soft in camp, maybe we have Brandon Rose who would also be a developing quarterback, but maybe our defense wouldn’t be so nasty and playing as well as it is.

I think the biggest reason for lack of offensive production is that we haven’t needed it. Once we are up a couple of scores, we shut the offense down and slowly crush teams by eating up time. When we are up multiple scores, the only way we loose is if either defense or offense makes a huge mistake. Because of style and talent, the defense doesn’t give up very many big plays.

First downs are nice, but they don’t have sufficient upside to outweigh the risks when you have an all-time best defense and a new quarterback.

This style of offense doesn’t have the fireworks or the clicks of USC offense, but it works. I more often see teams lose games by refusing to follow this style (Kyle Shanahan and the falcons in the SB) than loose because they followed this style.

[Ghost of the HEB]

He did get cleared by Dr. Just didn’t get cleared by Cam

[The Miami Ute]

This issue is what I was referring to in another post. As I understand it, and this comes from OnlyU, Rising has been cleared to play and it’s up to him when he feels ready. I’m sorry, but is that any way to run a major college football program? To depend on the whims of a player? I don’t want to be adversarial but it sounds like a case of the tail wagging the dog.

I really need to weigh my words carefully because I like Rising, a lot, and I truly appreciate what he’s done for the Utah. In addition, I’m certainly not in the camp of forcing any player to play before he thinks he’s ready.
However, if you don’t think you’re ready, then you’re not getting the practice reps. You can’t take the majority of practice snaps, if that’s what’s been happening, and then tell me on Thursday “can’t go Skip.” That’s just no way to run a team.

As my dad always used to say, loyalty is a two way street. If you can’t go because you’re not mentally ready to take the reins (even though you’ve been physically cleared to play), then fully stand aside. No one is going to blame you for it. As it is, you’re already making a superhuman effort to get back and play any portion fo the 2023 season. What you can’t do is insert yourself in the practices, leading the coaching staff and the fan base on, because you’ve been the face of the team for the last couple of seasons and would like that feel good trend to continue. Doing so leads to the detriment of the guys that are actually going to play on Saturdays.

So, in closing, eventually you’ve got to crap or get off the pot. We’ve already played a third of the schedule without Rising and there’s no telling, undoubtedly because of the way Kyle runs the information outflow, when Cam’s coming back. OnlyU says that Rising is really, really close to playing. I guess we’ll see on Friday night if it’s this weekend.

[22Ute22]

We’ve been on the same page on this whole thing, but I definitely won’t be as nice about it. It’s absolutely no way to run a team. Doesn’t matter if it’s Cam Rising, or anyone else. Hell, even if it was Cam Newton from 2010, it doesn’t matter. Either you’re ready to play, or you’re not.

[Roy Rangum]

So many negative nancies on this thread!

I’m grateful Nate stepped up and beat out Barnes, and I hope he keeps progressing. But no way no how would I put all my eggs in the Nate Johnson basket, particularly when one of our all time great QB’s is reportedly very close to coming back. Of course you let them split reps.

While maybe Nate will someday become the permanent QB1, that’s a big if right now, and we should be doing everything we can to get Cam back in the game.

[DrahtUte]

Fans are wanting Kyle to get aggressive offensively by opening the playbook for Nate but I think Kyle’s version of being aggressive this year is investing in the possibility of Cam’s return.

Kyle knows he has perhaps his best defense ever and he wants a chance at pairing them with one of our best QBs ever.

He’s swinging for the fences, in his own way. I can’t blame him. The potential for an incredible season is still there for the taking.

[The Miami Ute]

I certainly would like to think that’s what’s happening but don’t know. When you, as an organization, provide little to no information about your current situation, rumors and innuendos will fill the vacuum.

[2008 National Champ]

The potential for an incredible season is still there for the taking.

Would that potential not be there if the staff had devoted their time to making sure one of the other 4 QB’s was game ready coming out of fall camp and had the ability to run the full offense? The Quarterback Who Shall Not Be Named was always going to be a bonus if he came back.

I just don’t see how planning for a season without TQWSNBN would have put Utah in a worse position than they are in now.

[SUUte]

Here’s a new one I heard today. Cam’s been cleared for weeks…it’s his agent who’s been holding him out. 👀

[DataUte]

Well, the last 2 years, Cam has hurt his knee in the Rose Bowl. 2021, he played 2 snaps in the 1st game, then came in game 3 and just missed bringing us back against SDSU (and Brewer left). 2022 he played 13.5 games. So maybe we only have part of a season, so we have to choose wisely. 10 games would be starting this Fri + CCG + bowl. 8 games would be starting USC + CCG + bowl… and this is his last chance to stay healthy and hope to continue the dream in the NFL. Another injury and he’s Uncle Rico. Might be a UDFA but if he comes back, leads the team to 3-peat and a NY6 bowl, he might get a higher draft position … ok, I’m just babbling on about nothing.

[2008 National Champ]

good theory. how do you choose ahead of time which play is one too many?

If we all knew that TQWSNBN was going to get hurt against USC last year, wouldn’t the staff have held him out causing Utah to lose that game?

[The Miami Ute]

Do you have a source for that rumor?

[SUUte]

Just here say from a parent of a kid within the program.

[RoboUte]

I agree big time. And I think Cam getting all of the reps is a good analogue to him still being here at all in terms of how it affects the program. We’re giving Cam reps at the cost of a dude that is actually starting in real life, a dude with two working knees. We have to go out and play every week now, this guy is in his first games, he DESPERATELY needs those reps. Especially with Whitt saying in the presser today that they wouldn’t be installing anymore of the playbook for Nate. Know why? because Cam’s taking his time with the 1s.

Same deal as least year heading to this year. Despite the fact that odds were always that cam take 10 months to recover well and probably more like 18 months to really be humming again we let him logjam our QB room (no ones transferring in with the big dog still in town). I called this out last year and it’s coming to fruition. I’ve seen the discussion on this board as to why we didn’t find a transfer QB and the obvious answer is right there.

This program has been shooting itself in the foot for about 10 months for a quarterback that will never perform as he did 2022 for the Utes ever again. We’re sacrificing the development of our young QBs, the resilience of our QB room in the face of injuries, and pretty soon we’ll be sacrificing wins. All for a dude that isn’t even the best quarterback of our last two full season starting quarterbacks. A dude who I can absolutely guarantee will go out there and be 80% of himself, a dude who is ONE bad hit from going back to square one. Cam’s great and no one can ever take away where he’s accomplished but damn at some point we have to realize we’re doing this for the U, not Cam. It’s week 5. Give your actual real life starting QB the reps for god sake, it may already be too late.

My gut tells me Cam tries to play on Friday. If he doesn’t make it out there it’s time to cut bait.

[2008 National Champ]

The one possibility, that you alluded to, which most do not want to consider is that the quarterback who shall not be named is a shell of his former self. The only consideration seems to be that TQWSNBN will come back running for first downs, taking on linebackers and somehow have discovered how not to throw the hot route only while hitting every receiver in stride 40 yards downfield.

What happens when the savior can’t escape the rush, throws multiple picks a game and the offense is no better than we saw last week? Because I saw that against a bad Oregon defense last year and am not looking forward to an encore performance.

[RoboUte]

“The only consideration seems to be that TQWSNBN will come back running for first downs, taking on linebackers and somehow have discovered how not to throw the hot route only while hitting every receiver in stride 40 yards downfield.”

Yep… What will a QB of Cam’s style be left with if immobile? I don’t like the only answer I can come up with. If Cam was a gunslinger this is all not so bad but big plays and Cam Rising are practically oil and water, though he can’t shoulder all the blame for that I’m unwilling to accept that our plucky pig farmer with balls of steel going out there and completing a pass longer and better looking than any Cam’s ever thrown is entirely a coincidence.

Look I’m not here to be foolish enough to tell anyone that Cam isn’t damn good, but I’m also not fool enough to think think we’ll ever seen the old Cam again. That’s just not how it works, this is real life, not an action movie, “recovered” is a gradient. With 1/3rd of the season down and him not having touched the field the writing is on the wall.

[22Ute22]

As much as I have been upset with the whole QB situation, I’m still holding out hope that when he does return, he’ll be just as good, if not better than his old self. The silver lining of his injury was that he decided to work on his throwing motion, apparently for velocity and distance on his throws. He trained with a QB Guru that has worked with players like Mahomes and Burrow. Im sure Cam knows his running game might be limited. If he becomes a better downfield passer to compensate for that, we could have a special season.

[RoboUte]

No reason to not have hope, it could happen.

Hey totally unrelated but I’d pick up something strong for his return game (to… celebrate, you know?), you fancy a bourbon? I’ve been in the east for years and High West is stocked in any decent joint. Can’t recommend our hometown poison enough.

[CityCreekUte]

All the reasons why really don’t matter at the end of the day if the guy going out to play QB is NJ he needs to be getting the practice reps.

His ability to develop, to grow the playbook, to find rhythm with other players hinges on it.

So it doesn’t matter if it’s due to physical injury, mental uncertainty, money, doctors or any other reason, if Cam isn’t going to be the QB then he needs to stop taking the reps away from the guy who is. Same goes for Barnes.

The coaching has failed NJ if they keep throwing him out there without preparing him 100% and especially not even giving him the reps to prepare. Splitting time 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 ways just isn’t fair to him or the rest of the team.

[22Ute22]

People on this board probably just think I’m nothing but a pessimistic, terrible fan, but it’s this that rubs me the wrong way. NJ seems like a really good guy. He’s trying his absolute damn hardest to get this offense going, and our coaching staff isn’t trying their hardest with him. They gave him 50% of the reps against a defense with two borderline elite edge rushers. That is literally just sending him to the lions den with minimal preparation, which does nothing but kill his confidence.

NJ may or may not be the future QB in 2024 or 2025, but damnit give him all the possible tools to succeed right now, instead of handicapping him, which makes him feel like it’s his fault that the offense is performing poorly.

[UteDuke]

This is exactly the sentiment that prompted my original post. I love Cam, and I’m happy that he is on the team this year. That said, until he is the guy, let’s give our full support to the one who is taking the field. “Next man up” can’t only apply to every other position on the field. Right now Johnson is our guy. I would hope the coaches would give him every possible opportunity and resource to succeed!

[Rick]

I think that I’m going to trust the coaches on this matter. I somewhat enjoy all of the conjecture and second-guessing on this thread. I think most of you are thoughtful in your opinions; but I just keep having this thought in my mind – “We’re talking about Cam Rising.” Scott Mitchell refers to Rising as the GOAT quarterback for the University of Utah. That’s a whole other debate, but it inserts immediate perspective for me. If he wants to return this season, you have to give him reps. Reps will hasten his return – whether that’s this Friday or in a few weeks against California.

I love that Nate Johnson is getting experience and is making improvements. I saw some Saturday – against one of the best defenses we will face this season. I was frustrated with the play-calling like so many fans, but I sure love the results so far.

[RoboUte]

Scott Mitchell sighting

[prestitute]

No. We are 4-0, and our team is like a family. Cam is the leader. If he isn’t going to play, it would be great to know, but he is clearly our best option in the meantime. Nate needs some more maturing, but I am really happy with him getting time. We are 4-0. I trust we will play a different style when we need to, but the coaching staff has handled things brilliantly. Most had us going somewhere between 8-4 and 10-2 if completely healthy, the fact that we are outpacing that while beat up is nuts. Do I think we win the conference as is? No, definitely not, but even at 100% strength we wouldn’t be favored to do so. I think we are actually setting up very well for this year and even better for next given how much time our players of the future are getting today. It is insane how much we whine about a 4-0 team with this many injuries.

[Author]

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