Vaki and our receivers

[BleedsRedUte]

I couldn’t watch the first half and part of the second half, so I have some questions for those who were at the game and could see the whole field.

First, what happened to Vaki? He was the deciding factor in the USC game, but don’t understand not seeing much impact reported by for him on the Oregon game? If he didn’t play, I heard/saw nothing reported about that.

Second, Is there a problem with our receivers, Money, Mathews, Vele, and some of the newcomer receivers being able to get open? With TV coverage you can see Barnes, who I think is a good passer, with enough time, but finally eating the ball or escaping the rush to throw a contested pass. It looks like he can’t find an open receiver. What do you see? With the success Barnes has had passing in other games, it is hard for me to understand the complete dropoff in the passing game against Oregon.

[Larry B]

1. Vaki played and was in on several offensive plays, but he got very little touches. It was as if the coaches felt like he played too well against USC and didn’t want him to get too c**ky so they decided to shut him down.

2. Barnes missed a lot of open receivers. Vele was having a hell of a game and was getting open. Barnes just doesn’t seem to see the field very well and scrambles at the first sign of any pressure.

[AlohaUte]

Love Barnes, always will, but I’ll say it again. He’s a starter in FCS, not P5.

[W16Ute]

I agree with Larry. Open receivers everywhere. Barnes with time seems to flounder. Even with time and looking around through progressions he can’t recognize when someone is open or throw it into space to allow the receiver to go get it. Rather he seems doubtful, hesitates then panics and runs (usually backwards trying to get the edge with mixed success). Even when he got that ball to Vele, literally no one was anywhere near Vele and it would have been a walk in TD… But had to make a diving catch.

“One more year… One more year”

[EagleMountainUte]

Vaki hit Cal by surprise and USC overlooked it. That was obvious as it played out. But if you watch someone else other than Vaki you see how bad Cal and USC were.

Barnes is bad. He is who he is. Jackson went down fairly early again. His high ankle sprain needs like 2 months to heal I would imagine. Once Barnes only had Vaki it was done. Sell out when he is in and blitz Barnes creatively.
Barnes can’t read beyond a single receiver. I think it was apparent on the 3 points Utah had to settle for. Vele was kind of covered but Barnes stepped up and threw it over the head of the receiver he focused on the entire time.

Barnes has a lot of heart. But this goes back to something @Utah pointed out. That huge pass Barnes opened the offense with against Florida. He actually threw to the wrong guy. The other guy would have scored as well but the more difficult one was the double covered one. Now it worked out but it is interesting. Barnes is the playground kid with the arm who said I am coming to you Johnny in the huddle. He will look for Johnny come hell or high water after he breaks the huddle. Now it will doom the play or Barnes will make it work with his feet. You can do that against s**t teams like SC and Cal. Oregon is really good. Top ten for sure. Last season they probably should have gone to the CCG if not for injury to Nix.

Edit: As far as receivers go but I think it would be incredibly difficult to not be Johnny after you break the huddle. Human nature being what it is you can’t help but know the ball isn’t coming your way.

[BleedsRedUte]

Thanks for the responses! Very good information. But with the basic athletic goods that BB has (otherwise why recruit), why hasn’t Ludwig/qb coaches been able to see these shortcomings in things that can be improved, like reading the defense, looking off dbs, progression through the possible receivers, etc.?

[The Miami Ute]

Eagle covered most of it. From my viewpoint, it looked as if Oregon made the conscious decision to take away Vaki from Utah’s offense. It’s almost as if they thought that Utah had no other players that could hurt them besides Vaki.

[ORute]

Yep, Oregon has a specific signal for when Vaki on the field–according to the commentators. Feel like Oregon was playing one step ahead and we were running the same stuff and expecting it to work the same as Cal and USC.

I also think there becomes a point of deminishing returns playing Vaki on both sides. There is a reason no one plays both ways at this level–its takes an unreal amount of stamina to be play high level on both sides–especially week after week. Hunter is a unicorn, but even he had a month of injury rest and we saw him get getting beat on the back end by the Stanford guy–had like 300yrds–late in that game. Hunter just didn’t have the juice to keep up with deep routes. Quite simply, they become less effective on both sides–no matter how talented they are–humans are not machines.

Feel like combination of stale calls and 3 weeks playing both ways led to Vaki not being a factor. I do think going forward he needs to be primarily O or D–maybe an occasional decoy on O, but a mainstay in the backfield is untennable. Otherwise I can see deminishing returns which will hurt on both sides of the ball.

[EagleMountainUte]

If you look at the total timeline it is hard to judge BB growth fairly. All things being fair he was 3/4 string. He was getting those reps up until Cal game week prep he got first team.

Qb spot has been managed the way it has been managed this season. Some would say it is what it is others would say it was horrible. Especially in light of Rising’s update after the OSU loss.

I say it hasn’t made sense and someone messed up.

[The Miami Ute]

Eagle, I’ll put it this way…if you take the same scenario that you just outlined and, instead of Whitt being the HC, it’s a second or third year HC, that person is right now getting roasted slowly over an open fire. Whitt has rightly so built up an insane amount of credit with us, so, personally speaking, I’ll just let bygones be bygones on this issue and hope it doesn’t occur again.

[EagleMountainUte]

Well any coach. I think many of the Boosters expectations were seeing a CFP. The defense looked every bit as what we thought it could be. Then they go forward with a plan that I can’t understand. I can’t think of a similar scenario ever occurring at a CFP contending program but it was disastrous decisions led to this point.
Which I really was on the side of pushing for 2024. With the haze of Rising next season looming I don’t think it will happen.

[The Miami Ute]

What’s your take? Do you think Rising is coming back next year or is he out the door?

[EagleMountainUte]

No clue frankly don’t care. My hope is regardless of the decision you recruit a high quality transfer who: A) Wants to compete B) Fits the system you want to run.
I could be wrong but I think Johnson and Rose will be looking to leave. Barnes ain’t leaving.

I like Rising. You can’t deny his results. He also had a lot around him that worked. Utah took its lumps this year they need to cash in on this defensive talent. Unfortunately many of them might grade out well.

[Central Coast Ute]

I agree with Utemtnbiker in that he’ll be back. He’ll make more money in college than the NFL. Although it is possible he hits the portal.

[UtMtBiker]

Coming back 100%. His draft prospectus doesn’t support leaving. Why wouldn’t he come back and make a few hundred thousand in NIL deals. Just hasn’t announced it because someone like espn 700 won’t pay him to come on and announce something you have up for free on Gameday months earlier.

[UtMtBiker]

Terrible policy. He’s slipping. Still better than most? Probably so, but he’s slipping. There’s no need to give him a pass. He’s great but it’s okay to point out his failures. That’s what sports and being a fan is all about.

[UtMtBiker]

Seeing & teaching them and having the player learn & implement them are not the same thing. Not everyone Cag do it or everyone would have played D1 QB. It’s just not that simple

[NorthernUte]

As everyone said, he definitely played in the first half. Even on defense as well, to put it frank… he was a liability on defense this week, at least two of their first touchdowns were to his side of the field and he just didn’t have enough gas to get over and stop either of them. They took him away on offense and took advantage of him on defense. They need to play him on one side of the ball or the other. Other teams will see that now and take advantage of it

[123punt]

Vaki’s touches, afaik, were the same packages from previous weeks. Oregon would signal Vaki was on the field and key in on him, since they knew he was getting the ball. That included a safety being assigned man coverage. Vaki didn’t play a lot of snaps, which likely was because of Oregon’s offense shredding Utah’s defense early on. It seems despite Whitt’s comments earlier in the week regarding analytics, they wanted him playing on defense more.

Bottom line is we showed up with the same offense we had against Oregon St / Cal / USC. Oregon actually took us seriously and shut it down.

I feel bad for Jackson. He’s sorely needed, but he needs to rest. Us playing injured players makes me more sympathetic to Rising/Kuithe rumors and our coaching/medical staff potentially rushing people out there.

[EagleMountainUte]

I agree mostly with the injuries. Everyone is injured to some degree at this point in the season though. Jackson needs rest it is pretty obvious for sure.
Rising and Kuithe situations are completely different then being rushed back. Timelines were confused or changed deceptively.

[Utes 69]

Wait a minute we have receivers!!!

[Charlie]

Vaki saw much more daylight from Cal and USC, but Oregon is a much more disciplined defense. Oregon also had a big stout front that made all runs difficult. Vaki’s ad lib simply did not work with Oregon being very aware. On Barnes interception, Vaki made a move just as Barnes threw and the play had a negative impact on both. Playing both ways may have caught up with him as initially he had a couple of errors on defense.

Vele actually had a good game, the rest of the passing game struggled. Barnes stays on his first option quite long which is likely a function to so little playing time and lack of experience with good athletes. Oregon had done their homework in coverage and almost always had very good pressure.

[UtMtBiker]

“..who I think is a good passer…. who has had success in other games” that’s your problem right there. It’s hard to make sense of a flawed premise.

[Caliman]

THE PIG FARMER WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES AND SHRED THE REMAINING OF THE DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. VELE was the only recive getting opened, all the others were outmatched by the ducks DBs. That comment above about BB missing wide open receivers is BS. I can only think of one clear time when parks was wide open in the end zone, that is it

[Utes 69]

incorrect Emory Simmons dropped one he was wide open, two balls thrown his way, two balls dropped.

[2008 National Champ]

That’s quite the ratio. Definitely found impactful WR transfers this season which were able to significantly upgrade the room and the overall performance.

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