Why are B12 fans (aka BYU fans) so arrogant about expansion?

[Jim McMahon]

I’ve posted on here a few times in the past and always try to be respectful. I saw a post below about why B12 fans (BYU fans) are so arrogant about expansion and I wanted to shed a little light on it from a BYU fan’s perspective. It’s only fair for me to return the favor since there are so many Utah fans on our message board and we have a nice healthy dialogue.

When we were invited to join the B12 after the announced departure of Texas and Oklahoma, we knew it was a watered down conference and we were only being invited to save face. Neverthelsess, after years of stupid independence, we were elated! Finally, we would have a better seat at the table.

Now this new round of expansion throws a wrench in a lot of things and the future is uncertain for any school not in the SEC or B1G. We know we will never be invited to either of those but if the B12 can stabilize itself and be the third best option, then that’s certainly better than where we were in independence and not a bad place to be. Also, our basketball in that conference with Kansas, Baylor, Cincy, Texas Tech, OK State, West Virginia and Houston is going to be awesome. Certainly way more exciting than the WCC ever was and I mean them no disprespect. They welecomed us with open arms and kicked our butts most years.

Now to the point of gloating. For years, most of my Utah friends have rubbed the P12 in our faces. BYU fans have been sour about not joining that conference along with you. If you’re being honest with yourselves, we were more deserving than Colorado and would have brought a lot more to the table, along with continuing a historic rivalry that would have been amplified in a bigger conference. Colorado sucks, plain and simple. You know it and I know it. We all know it’s our religious affiliattion that kept us out, but it still sucks. So we have had to put up with your program passing us up in talent and recruiting, being in an awesome conference, and kicking our butt for the last decade AND rubbing in the Pac 12 in our faces. So fast forward to today. Sure, both our conferences are unstable after the announcemnt of USC/UCLA, but with rumors of Oregon, Washington, and potentially Stanford/Cal, your conference looks more unstable at the moment. It would be vindicating for many BYU fans to watch the PAC fall apart and see Utah forced back to the MTN West. It might even be a little ironic after ALL the trash talk over the last decade. But that’s a pipe dream on Cougarboard.

Most rational BYU fans know in their hearts that getting Utah over to the B12 would be the best thing for longterm stability. That is what most of us want to happen. But you can’t blame BYU fans for talking trash in the current environment since you guys have basically spiked the football in our faces about P12 over the last decade. You’ve big-timed us. 

**My greatest fear this year: Utah runs the table, makes the CFP, and gets an invite to the B1G.

[AZUTE]

The truth is byu fans have a massive inferiority complex even with current scoreboard.

Just when they thought they were getting out of Utah’s shadow they are scared to death of going right back in there if Utah ends up in the Big12.

Their false bravado is very transparent

[Jim McMahon]

Many BYU fans do have an inferiority and persecution complex. I’ll grant you that.

But nobody is scared of Utah, I hate to break it to you. We have always simply wanted to maintain the rivalry. You guys on the other hand act like it never existed and have big-timed us. I would personally love for Utah to be in the B12 and for the rivalry to resume. We’ll see how it plays out.

Also, these things ebb and flow. You guys currently have your “Lavell Edwards” in Whitt. I have a hard time believing that whoever his successor is will be as successful. He is one been one of the best ten coaches in CFB over the last 15 years. That will be hard to replace. We had your number for decades under Lavell. You’ve had ours for the last 12-15 years. We’ll see if the pendulum swings back depending on how things shake out with conference realignment. 

[Rick]

Technically you had our “number” for a decade and a half.  The overall series has been much more lopsided in Utah’s favor.  “Decades” is a bit of a stretch since Ronnie Mac was basicaly .500 against BYU and we have dominated you ever since.  Prior to Lavell coming on in the mid-70s, Utah dominated the series.  

I would not say BYU is scared of Utah but insanely jealous (which is a major sin mind you!) would be very accurate.

[Jim McMahon]

Haha! I’ll readily admit I’ve been jealous! We would have loved to have a seat at the table. You guys have made the most of it and clearly passed us up with your additional resources and better recruiting.

From 71-92 BYU went 19-3. That technically counts as two decades worth of games. I’m running with decades!

[PhiladelphiaUte]

That’s another myth.  We did not pass you up with our extra resources.  It’s actually the other way around.  Back in the 70s and 80s, ybU-p committed to more resources for their football program, and wound up passing us up.  But that ended during the McBride years, when by the time he was playing with his recruits (c. 1993), Utah had gone 5-3 (.625) vs ybU-p.  By the time Urban Meyer arrived, Utah had passed ybU-p back up again.  We’d been producing better teams, better recruiting classes, and more NFL players several years before joining the Pac-12.  The Pac-12 only widened the preexisting gap.

[Rick]

The overall series is 63-35-4 for Utah.  The past three decades is 19-11 for Utah.  LaVell was 22-7 vs. Utah.  Beyond that incredible stint, BYU collectively has only beat Utah 13 times since 1896!  13!  Some equate all of Utah’s success to having a LaVell-like coach in Kyle but. while that might be somewhat true, I highly doubt Utah, no matter where it ends up post Kyle, will have the football mediocrity that BYU has enjoyed before and since LaVell.    

[Utah]

All these things ebb and flow?

Utah beat BYU over 70% of the time pre-Lavell. Utah has beaten BYU over 70% of the time post-Lavell. 

Lavell’s tenure was the weird blip in this series and things have gone back to normal. That’s what most BYU fans don’t realize. Lavell was not the normal way of things. Losing to Utah over 70% of the time is the normal. 

[Ute Dub]

Listen, that game take a lot of focus and energy, and Utah fans had seen Utah win the rivalry game before, but they hadn’t seen Utah win the PAC 12 championship game. Part of the reason for not wanting to play that game early on was so that hopefully Utah coaches players could spend time scouting PAC 12 oponents and trying to win their south division. That’s the main reason for not wanting to play the game and the irony of last years results is interesting, lose the rivalry, win the PAC 12. Can both be done? Yet to be seen. 

[noneyadb]

Enjoy the conference, but the bigxii is left literally begging Colorado to come back… Not sure I’d be bragging too much.

[Jim McMahon]

I don’t think I was bragging at all. I’ve admitted that you guys have owned us over the last decade. I’m simply explaining why BYU fans have been gloating. You guys won’t admit at all that you have spiked the P12 conference football in BYU fans’ faces for the last decade plus? 

Why do you think we want Colorado or even Arizona? Because if you guys lose one domino, your conference will fall apart. We’d take any P12 program right now because it would break your conference and then hopefully we could add more teams. P12 would probably do the same in reverse to the B12. One of these two will survive to be the 3rd best option after the clear power 2 conferences. 

[noneyadb]

Not saying you’re bragging, but that BYU fans are.

Fox and ESPN need Pacific prime time programming. Bigxii, B1G, ACC or SEC can’t offer that every week. Colorado, and UA don’t increase tv revenue and schools aren’t making a bilateral move. Unless Oregon and Washington leave for the B1G or SEC, but the B1G isn’t expanding any further without Notre Dame and they’re staying independent, I just don’t see that happening and the SEC doesn’t travel…

[BJA 13]

Just curious?  What makes BYU a better choice than Colorado?  

From a competitive standpoint they have a more recent National Championship…BYU hasn’t played a meaningful bowl game since 1996.  

(Yes, BYU has had more recent success/ better record/rankings etc, but zero NY6 games, BCS, etc in the past 25 years)

From a TV standpoint you capture the Denver/Colorado markets.   BYU may have more eyeballs from church members, but that is hard to quantify when selling a TV deal.  

 

[Jim McMahon]

This is a good start

 

https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/07/14/power-5-desirability-rankings-sec-big-ten-acc

[Jim McMahon]

This is what I would start with. Objectively better in every category. 

https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/07/14/power-5-desirability-rankings-sec-big-ten-acc

[BJA 13]

Apologies.  I should have been clear, past tense (10 years ago when expansion happened)

Colorado was a better choice then.  BYU may be now.

Your link is from an article from 2022.  We may be arguing two different points.   

[Jim McMahon]

Glad you clarified. The data was even stronger back then. Colorado’s last five years in the B12 were putrid. They did not have one winning season and went 2-10, 6-7, 5-7, 3-9, and 5-7 for a combined 21-40 record. BYU over those same seasons went 11-2, 11-2, 10-3, 11-2, 7-6, finishing in the top 25 four times with a combined 50-14 record. Based on merits alone, it was a no-brainer.

Look, I know BYU’s “no Sunday” play is a headache for conferences, so that’s a big hurdle. That along with religious views kept them out of the PAC. Just admit it and stop trying to pretend that they weren’t deserving. And if we’re talking media market and eyeball potential of Colorado, I think Rutgers and Illinois have taught us that you would much rather have a solid program from a smaller market than a piece of crap program from a bigger market. I mean, look at the vewership column in the linked article above. BYU is tied for 41st currently and Colorado is 45th, and that’s after ten years of us being Indy and them being in the PAC. It’s not even close. 

All this said, I really am glad BYU is in the B12 and not the P12 simply because they embrace our oddities and religious views more than the liberal chancellors in the P12. Southern schools are more religious-minded and it’s a better cultural fit. But politics aside, BYU was a much stronger option back then and is even stronger today than Colorado despite the financial advantages CU has had in the P12 over us. 

[BJA 13]

Why would the P12 have wanted another MWC team (In addition to Utah) essentially in the same market when they could  get a current P5 team in a different market?  

Or are you arguing BYU was a better choice than Utah at the time?   

On field performance is part of it, but those were MWC records.  

B12 has always looked like a better fit from the religious perspective.  But again, what has BYU done of significance since 1996?  

If you’re arguing just on field performance and records from a weak conference Boise St would have been the best choice (over BYU and Colorado). But Colorado was theoretically better equipped to compete and brought an additional market.

I’ll admit that Utah won the lottery.  Their on field performance helped by winning 2 recent significant Bowl games…but I don’t think anyone “deserved” it.  

 

[AlaskaSteveUteAlum]

I don’t think anyone should be arrogant, until we see what happens with the sixteen(or more) team conferences. History suggests that they will break up, because of scheduling and individual institutions with athletic egos demanding more money and exposure.

[Jim McMahon]

I know lots of BYU fans are being obnoxious right now. I don’t dispute that. But you have to understand that if the show were on the other foot, you would be elated about the future too, coming from where we’ve been recently, even thought we know the future is uncertain. Our past was already uncertain and crappy, so this uncertain future is better than being Indy. Banning together with the best leftovers is better than being Indy, so we’re excited. 

Indy was better than being in the Mtn West, but it sucked. We never had a seat at the table. And we know that we still won’t be in one of the best two conferences going forward, but being in a conference with awesome basketball and good schools is still way better than where we were at. And all the trash talk on Twitter and Cougerboard is simply having fun for the current instability in the PAC after ALL the crap we’ve heard from Utah fans about being in a power conference. I still haven’t heard one of you admit that Ute fans have dunked on BYU for years about the P12.

[Central Coast Ute]

I don’t know. Boise made the NY6 in the MWC, why couldn’t BYU? BYU tried to have a P5 front loaded schedule and until covid hit, they would start the season 2-2 or 1-3. By week 2 every year they were looking at a toilet bowl and no conference championship. How is that better?

[Jim McMahon]

Because Craig Thompson and the Moutain Network sucked SO BAD. Anything was better than that. 

[Central Coast Ute]

Byu made more money with indy than MWC, but the MWC was a superior product. You had a shot at the NY6 and weren’t playing Wagner in November

[Utah]

I like you. 

I don’t think Indy was better than the MWC. I honestly think you’d have a couple NY6 games had you’d stayed in the MWC. 

[Tony (admin)]

Quite frankly, I don’t give a damn about byu, its fans, what conference it is in, what their fans say, what their fans think, or what ice cream they eat at the creamery. The only time I pay any attention to byu is the week we play them. When the game is over I celebrate if we win and feel bad if we lose. Then it is time to move on to the next game. From that point on I think NOTHING about them.

[Tednab]

Agree , the game to me is more of annoyance and in the way of what the Utes we’re trying to accomplish.. frankly I put more emotion into playing USC , ASU, Washington and Oregon than BYU. I know more about their players than any of BYUs . Never been on CB , never will. Careless about what they’re doing or saying ..Not really worried about our future in which conference we’ll be in either, think we’ll be just fine .. Scalley has been mentored by the best , just like whit. Program is in a good place

[Jim McMahon]

You have that luxury because you have had a seat at the table. Good for you. We haven’t. I would think the same thing if I had been in your position. 

[DrJazzy]

Thanks for weighing in. 

I would say Utah fans weren’t anymore insufferable or arrogant about the changing of the CF landscape than BYU fans are now. But I am also clearly biased! 

Also we fully recognize Utah caught lightening in a bottle – but it was such a cool and one of a kind moment for us. Coming off of 2 BCS bowl wins in 4 years we felt like we got promoted from the little leagues to the pros, and the Pac10 at the time was a premier conference with an arrow that was pointing up. The Pac 10 did wonders for recruiting, money for the program, prestige, etc. We were associated with schools like Stanford, USC, Cal, etc. Damn right we were arrogant about it! 

I fully disagree with the CB mentality of victim blaming (religious bigotry) as the reason why BYU didn’t get the call up early. 

I do feel like the arrogance of BYU fans on CB is much more insufferable – y’all ain’t even officially play your first B12 game yet. Overall, BYU def is in a better place since the P10 will likely lose Or/Wash as soon as the B10 comes calling and there goes the end of the conference. 

Would be super happy to join y’all in the B12 – hope that happens of course if the P10 folds. 

Both BYU and Utah lose in the long run though with the consolidation of football to two power conferences – which is a shame. 

You’ll really enjoy being part of a conference again – haha and hopefully understand why we all wore Pac12 gear early on. 

Cheers and thanks for visiting – swing on by more often and we can run more rivalry smack!! 

[Jim McMahon]

Thanks for the post. Yeah, you guys definitely earned your way in. You have had almost 20 years of really solid football. That win over Bama in the Sugar Bowl was magical. My brother in law played O-line for Utah back in the late 90’s and has converted my sister and their kids all over to UofU fans. I really don’t mind Utah and want them to do well.

I was just lamenting that we didn’t get a seat at the table too. I really do think it was our No Sunday play and our religious views that kept us out, but we can agree to disagree. If I were a P12 president at the time, I don’t know if I would have wanted BYU either with all the headaches of scheduling, etc. But if it were simpy merits, we were more deserving than Colorado, hands down, if you check my post above.

Good luck this season! That first game in the Swamp should be a fun one. What a cool opener!

 

 

[DrJazzy]

I have to remind myself that CB doesn’t represent most BYU fans – you seem super reasonable and are just a passionate fan of your school, like me.

Haha I am 100% biased, but if I took away my biases, of course BYU deserves a seat at the table. I seriously respect how passionate BYU fans are – win or lose.

J Hall was so good last yr. Obviously, after that crushing game I stopped following/watching other BYU games – but if he plays the way he did against us vs the rest of your schedule, y’all in for a big year. I heard your offense, with the WR’s and TE’s are looking good.

No lie – I was so confident about another Utah win last yr and that loss was absolutely devastating! Aside from Hall, I was so impressed with your defense and defensive play calling. Your line, on both sides, dominated, which was so unexpected. I heard you guys have most of your players coming back, so that should bode well.

Should be a fun season for both teams – lol until that first loss of course. I care way way too much about this stuff.

[BD]

No doubt BYU played “lights out” in that game. They clearly wanted to win that game. I was disappointed in Utah’s efforts, however, the shuffling of the Oline that Utah was doing at that time of the season can do that to a team – create confusion on Utah’s offense and make it appear they weren’t motivated much, when they probably were. And boy did BYU take advantage of that. I sometimes wonder why doesn’t BYU play defense like that every game? Maybe lack of depth in the latter part of the season? Regardless, props to BYU for bringing it when the opportunity came for them.

[DrJazzy]

They out physicaled us – I cannot even remember the last time that happened. It was so soul crushing. That, and anytime we developed momentum, Hall made a play with legs or arms. Just so hard to watch.

Then to watch Nacua score a TD against us…yikes the PTSD is coming back.

I was at a wedding in Cali during the SD state game and could not believe how were losing…I thought for sure the season was toast.

Then the tragedy with Lowe – which transcended sports and just made me so angry at the senseless violence and death of a young man that everyone said was a standout individual.

Which made what happened next just so remarkable and astonishing, and turned that season into one I will never forget.

Boy am I damn excited for the season to start.

Gooooooooo Utes!!!!!!!!!!!

PS Now in B10 country for this yr – and tell everyone I work with they need to push for Utah to join lol. Won’t happen, but I’ll go down trying to grassroot it.

[ProudUte]

Thanks for having the guts to come on here and post.  The CB will eat a Ute fan alive if they went there and posted something similar.  I do not want to be like the CB because they (most) seem full of hate for not just Utah, but USU, Boise, Shrevport, etc.

I think your post is fair.  We all want our team to be better than our rival in sports.  I get that and that is normal.  However, I do not understand the hatred towards the fans on the other side.  I have many BYU friends and family and they are good people.  We can kid about the rivalry and remain friends.  What I will never understand is the vile hatred espoused there towards me and other Ute fans just because we choose to cheer for the Utes.  This seems to be un-Christian.  (Your post was not that.)

I know some here are not pleased with your post and they may not be pleased with mine either.  However, I welcome an honest (not hate-filled) post from any school.

 

[Jim McMahon]

CB has a lot of knuckleheads for sure. But there are some consistent Ute posters that I like a lot. One of the best parts of CB in my opinion are the non sports-related posts. I have gotten so much advice with quick health-related questions (ironically from MedUte, a Ute doctor) for my son’s severe asthma. When I’m traveling or on vacation, CB is quick with answers about best restaurants or hotels, etc. I’m also LDS and so there are a lot of good religious or political discussion on there behind the paywall. But yes, excelling at awesome sports takes is something CB (and most message boards) struggles at and there are many that go after Ute posters. But there are several Ute fans who post all the time are are respected and appreciated. 

[DrJazzy]

Seriously, come on here more often. Always enjoy the banter with BYU fans. No matter what anyone says – Utah/BYU will always be each other’s main rivals. Would be great to be conference rivals again in the future – this definitely wouldn’t be the worse possible outcome.

[Waybackutefan]

“there are so many Utah fans on our message board and we have a nice healthy dialogue”

What Universe do you live in? Nice healthy dialogue? 90 percent of the responses from you guys to Utah fans on that place are “why are you here, don’t you have your own board, go post there”.

Not to mention if a “Ute fan” posted a whinny manifesto like the one above, they would be suspended and probably kicked off.

[ProudUte]

Yes the CB is a board where as they say “like-minded people go to post.”  They aren’t believers in freedom of speech.  If you question anything BYU – you are at the very least – called every name in the book and/or suspended.

Let’s not be that kind of board.  As for me – I welcome posters with differing opinions (not trolls).  Unfortunately, the CB is the worst of the worst when it comes to BYU fans.  I have met very few of these kinds of BYU fans in my personal life.  90% of the BYU fans I know are good people.  The CB promotes hate and un-Christian behavior.  In fact, the posts there would make one hate BYU fans.  I have to separate CB posters from the BYU fans who I know personally.

Also, it seems that their hate for USU and Boise is equal to their hate for Utes.

[Jim McMahon]

I don’t doubt this. CB can be absolutely awful and obnoxious. You have the craziest BYU fans behind the anonymity of a message board spouting off horrendous opinions. But that is most message boards that have a ton of traffic. I see a lot of exchanges on Twitter between BYU / Utah fans that are embarrassing.

But to your point, in real life, most Utah fans I know are awesome and respectful. I haven’t been to Rice Eccle’s in years, but when I last went in 2000, Utah fans were all respectful to me. Sure I got heckled a bit, but it was good natured and we both laughed. So yes, there is a lot of embarrassing behavior on CB, unfortunately. 

[ProudUte]

You seem to be a decent BYU fan and realize that much that is posted on the CB is in poor taste.  I have seen posts like, “If you are a Utah fan and live in my ward, I will not associate with you.”  How pathetic is that?

In any event, I have enjoyed your posts and as far as I am concerned – you are always welcome here.

By the way, you mentioned that there are other subjects on the CB that are good.  I believe this is true.  I got some good travel tips there and my son has followed some of the investment advice there and has had success.

I do have a question for you.  How can the CB stand behind ZW with what he has said and done and trash someone like Eric Weddle who is a good example?  Also, as far as I know, Eric has never trashed BYU, he just played for the enemy.  I am not saying they shouldn’t forgive Wilson, but I don’t get the hate towards Eric Weddle.

 

[Jim McMahon]

Thanks for your post. 

Believe me, we have all been ripping on Zach lately but he’s still one of us so we love him. Offseason salacious scandle, terrible INT, injury haha. Not a great way to start the season!

I have not seen disparaging Weddle posts on CB but I don’t doubt they are there. Most of us absolutely love and respect that guy along with Alex Smith. Weddle was a stud and a total class act. He was so classy after Beck and BYU finally beat Utah in ’06 and forever won my respect. 

There are a ton of idiots on CB and we have a very sensitive fanbase. But there are a lot of rational, good guys on there too. When my son was in the hospital with Asmtha complications and RSV/pneumonia and we almost lost him, I posted about it on CB to get some advice and just to vent. I had countless personal message of people reacing out and asking what they could do to help. It was overwhelming.

I make fun of our own fans on CB all the time. I also cringe when I see most BYU fans in public wearing an ill-fitting BYU shirt that is like 20 years old. But they’re my fans so I love them. But they (we) sure seem to have a hard time making fun of ourselves sometime.

We are thin-skinned and can you blame us? We’ve watched our rival pass us up and get more exposure, own us on the field. It’s been a rough go!

[ProudUte]

I will post just one more thing in this thread.

Just this week, many posters on the CB attacked Covey, which I do not understand.  In fairness, there were some who admitted liking Covey (one may have been you).  I just don’t get what there is to dislike about Covey.  The only thing is that he played for the enemy.  There are many former Cougars who I like. i.e., Steve Young, Taysom Hill, Andy Reid, Sitake, etc.  These are good men who I admire as people.  It doesn’t matter where they played football.  I know that I am preaching to the choir when responding to you.  You seem to be a level-headed guy who I would probably be friends with outside of sports boards.  The point is that I would expect more from BYU fans than to just hate someone because they once played at Utah.  That seems to go against what I have been taught as a member of that same church.  Oh well.

Thanks for coming on here.  It has been fun to banter with you.

 

[Jim McMahon]

We respect Covey and most are just salty that we didn’t even recruit him and he ended up being so good. 

but most CB threads I’ve been in admit he’s dang good and respect him. How could you not? Just kills us that we lost him to our rival. 

[DrJazzy]

I 100% co-sign this. I enjoy healthy rival smack or banter from people who root for other teams, and it is good to get perspective from other people.

[Jim McMahon]

“Whiny manifesto” haha. Tell me you hate BYU fans without telling me you hate BYU fans. 

[Waybackutefan]

There ya go I knew that comment would  draw out the typical paint with the broad brush all CB posters use, I’m supprised you didn’t go to the “you hate the church card”. At least you probably don’t need to worry about being suspended here, enjoy your freedom. 

[Jim McMahon]

I really have tried to be respectful. And I never once in my life thrown out a “you hate the church card” speaking of painting with broad brushes. I have already said that I have many Utah family members. I also don’t care at all about whether you are LDS or not. I have readily admitted that many BYU fans are insecure and have a persectution complex. I have also admitted that Utah has owned us recently and has passed us up. I was simply trying to give a perspective as to why many BYU fans have relished the instability lately and you call it a “whiny manifesto”. 

[BD]

Good post. I don’t agree 100% with all of it, but no problem. If we all thought exactly alike, this world would be boring.

RE: “It’s only fair for me to return the favor since there are so many Utah fans on our message board and we have a nice healthy dialogue.”

I used to post occassionally on CB a few years ago, but not anymore. I haven’t logged in in awhile. Last time I browsed there about a month ago, it was nothing but throwing tons of trash at Utah. Literally. I was stunned at the amount of Utah trash posts there were. There must have been 50 pages with hundreds of posts filled with Utah-hate. Seriously, I thought “Man, these people need help.” Maybe there is “healthy dialogue” now, but what I saw a month ago was anything but “healthy”. When I used to occassionally post a few years ago, it was mostly OK – but you had to be ready for the occassional trash post back – not a big deal – it’s a rival board and I was of the hated rival fan base, so I expected some of it.

RE: “For years, most of my Utah friends have rubbed the P12 in our faces”

I can certainly understand why your fan base thinks this. And, I wouldn’t doubt if you got “PAC-12!!!” thrown in your faces on occassion by Ute fans. However, I think your fan base really exaggerates this.

For example: I remember seeing a CB post numerous years back that a BYU fan complained about visiting downtown SLC and seeing lots of PAC-12 banners/flags. He posted something like, “They are just trying to rub it in our faces.” This is where I take issue. Fans celebrating a fantastic event/accomplishment aren’t really rubbing it in to their rivals. PAC-12 bumpers stickers and PAC-12 banners were just a celebration. It’s not our fault your fan base sees this as “rubbing it in”. Are Rams fans rubbing it in to Chargers fans when Rams fans display a Super Bowl banner? No. They are just celebrating. CBers getting offended were just jealous, IMO, and/or had a superiority complex like Dick Harmon thinking BYU deserved it more. Expecting Utes fans to not celebrate was unrealistic.

Another popular BYU fan narrative goes something like this: “You don’t see PAC-12 banners all over Seattle, or the Bay Area!”. Well, Washington, Cal, Stanford, etc. have been PAC-12 members for decades – no reason they would flood their cities with PAC-12 banners. Utah? It was new and we rightfully celebrated. A fantastic accomplishment deserves celbration.

I’ll leave an olive branch, and say that I really liked Jim McMahon. My favorite BYU QB legend by far. I was a college football fan in my youth, and I watched every play of the 1980 Holday Bowl/Miracle Bowl. I didn’t turn off the TV when BYU was getting squashed early in the game. It still blows my mind the improbability of that come back: a blocked punt, onside kick recovery, and hail mary – all in the last few minutes of the game. Quite amazing. And to add to the bizarre nature of that game – McMahon and Clay Brown (who caught the hail mary pass) were both Catholics playing at BYU. Anyway, amazing memory.

Thanks for stopping by and giving us your perspective. Even though I disagree with some things, I don’t mind pondering another opinion – it’s healthy to see things from another perspective.

Sorry for the long post. I’m bored today. 🙂

[DrJazzy]

Lol they are still trashing Utah non-stop with the same old tired ‘utah pizza delivery worker’ smack. I never take it personal and it’s fun to sometimes push back on the more illogical/arrogant posters.

It’s also quite amusing to me when they claim to not care about Utah – yet posts about utah are always on the top ten posts of the day list thingy.

Right now CB is 100% certain Utah is headed to the MWC – and they are gleefully dancing on our graves.

[Jim McMahon]

No we are not. We know the highest liklihood is that Utah ends up in the B12 and if we are being totally honest, we also know that this is the best scenario for the conference and for us. Utah is a very solid brand. (I’m assuming Washington and Oregon jump ship at some point and sink the P12)

We simply think it would be funny if Utah went back to the Mtn West after years of rubbing P12 in our faces. But that’s just a pipe dream. We know that’s not going to happen, nor should it. 

[DrJazzy]

Hey, I feel you from a BYU’s perspective. Haha hopefully you can understand why we were high as a kite when we got the invite – and why we would rub our rival’s face in it every chance we got those first few years. And maybe more. But yes – sadly the script has flipped and it isn’t fun being on the other side!!!!!

[Utah]

I don’t get why anyone would think Utah will be in the MWC. At worst, Utah is Big 12 bound. At worst. 

 

[BD]

I think it is possible (maybe even probable) that Washington, Cal, Stanford, Oregon leave for the B1G. With that either Utah joins the Big-XII, or the Pac-12 acquires a bunch of MWC programs. With the latter, BYU fans will equate Utah to be in the MWC. While not exactly true, I can see why they would mock us with it, if half the conference is former MWC programs. Will that happen? Dunno. But it is within the realm of possibility? Perhaps.

[Utah]

Ahhhh. That makes sense. 

[DrJazzy]

I really hope so – I was also one of those that felt like the Pac12 was untouchable though. So now that the unthinkable has happened – who knows.

Trying my best to be unbiased – but Utah has clearly shown they belong at this point. Take any metric.

The RB tv numbers were phenomenal and Utah fans showed the eff out. So damn cool to see.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

“If you’re being honest with yourselves, we were more deserving than Colorado and would have brought a lot more to the table…We all know it’s our religious affiliation that kept us out…”

Actually, if YOU were being honest with YOURself, you’d admit that you were NOT “more deserving than Colorado“.  And that’s why you didn’t even TRY to defend that outrageous claim.

CU is an AAU school — the highest classification of Tier-1 Research institutions.  ybU-p isn’t even Tier-1.  Academic edge:  Colorado

CU owns the more recent national championship, won a Big XII championship, played in the Fiesta Bowl, and won 4 North division titles.  ybU-p never even qualified for ONE BCS bowl.  Athletic edge:  Colorado

CU brings the Denver market.  ybU-p…..does not.  Media edge:  Colorado

CU had never been censured by the AAUP for assaults on “free speech” and “academic freedom”.  ybU-p had been censured for those offenses for the past quarter century.  Culture edge:  Colorado

So enough with that bogus “discrimination” claim.  If the Pac-12 hated the LDS church, Utah wouldn’t have been invited either.  We are the 2nd-most LDS school in the FBS ya know.  “Religion” is just an “excuse” you all had invented to mask the humiliation and indignation of your failures, because you’re all too arrogant to admit that you simply didn’t measure up, whereas your hated rival did.  So it’s not us who’s not “being honest with ourselves“.  It’s YOU guys.  Just listen to yourself…

“When we were invited to join the B12…we knew it was a watered down conference…BYU fans have been sour about not joining that conference along with you…Most rational BYU fans know in their hearts that getting Utah over to the B12 would be the best thing for longterm stability.”

ybU-p has long been butt-hurt over failing to receive an invitation to the “Conference of Champions”.  I remember all throughout the late-80s, 1990s, and early aughts, hearing the constant barrage of arrogant zoobies claiming to have grown too big for the WAC/MWC, and had subsequently been in secret negotiations with the Pac-10 for admission.  Despite NONE of that being true, that was ybU-p trying to “big time” Utah.  I also recall reading during the run-up to Utah’s eventual invitation, all the comments being posted on the SLTrib and DNews that the only way Utah will get the invite, is if ybU-p lets us ride in on their coattails.  If you’re so sour about us “big timing” you, know this:  you all had brought it on yourselves with your [bogus] arrogant attempts at doing that to us.

I would also point out that if the tdS knows that they’ll be joining a “watered down conference“, why do they still claim the Big XII — your 2nd choice for P5 leagues — is better than the Pac-12?  And if “most rational fans know that Utah adds value to the Big XII“, why all the insistences that we’ll wind up back in the MWC?

Answer:  Because they can’t be honest with either their fellow man, nor even themselves.  So don’t talk to us about “being honest with ourselves“, since we’re really the only party that HAD been.  Hypocrisy is so ybU.

P.S.:  There are NOT “nice healthy dialogue(s)” on cougarboard.  You wouldn’t know this because you’re a zoob, but your moderators over there censor the bejeebers out of us.  I personally got “banned for life” over leaving multiple “unpopular” posts.  Every time zoob nation started gushing over their latest recruit commitment, I kept posting their Rivals link, showing that they only had 2-stars.  You can’t have healthy dialogue when your moderators get to decide what facts will be allowed, and what they’d like to bury.  We don’t do that over here.  Edge:  Tony/UteHub

[Jim McMahon]

I’m sure I can have a rational respectful dialogue with someone who can’t even say BYU and calls me a Zoob. 

I posted above why we were more deserving than Colorado. Way better record the previous five seasons before P12 invite and better recently. Look at my posts above.

Sorry you got banned from CB, but it sounds like you’re not missing out. 

[DrJazzy]

Every fan base has knuckleheads, sadly even within our own fanbase.

I agree with the tired name-calling.

Haha and I am well aware Utah’s fanbase is filled with gas station attendants and pizza delivery drivers per CB.

One thing I do hate: the religious smack. There is no place for that – and I am not LDS. Our coach is LDS, our school president is LDS, a huge population of our fanbase and school population are LDS and we have fantastic LDS players. Utah fans who bash religion are doing a disservice to our own.

[Utah]

Yes…and no. 

I think LDS people are some of the most nice, hardworking, admirable people. 

I think the LDS Church is evil. From the polygamy to the racism to the bigotry today to the value of money over people, to the commercial investments, the lies from Hinckley to Nelson and the recent sexual assault cover ups. 

I DO think the religion played a part in keeping BYU out. Utah is a state school, not a religious school. While the U of U houses a lot of Mormons, the U of U does not agree with or endorse the horrible things the mormon corporation pushes. BYU does. That absolutely hurt BYU getting into the PAC-12. 

And it should. We should be ok with calling out horrible things when they happen, not trying to excuse them or find bad excuses why doing bad things is ok. 

[ProudUte]

Calling Utes – yewts or worse, or calling BYU fans zoobs is in my opinion immature and degrading.  I have never referred to BYU fans as zoobs.  Oh, and the names CB have for USU and Boise fans are even worse.  I don’t get it from either side.

[Waybackutefan]

Not to mention the pejorative term ALUF for LDS Utah fans. It may seem benign to some but let’s face it, it’s like RINO, it ain’t meant to be a compliment and definitely not a term of endearment. 

[BD]

Maybe it is not benign, but if I remember correctly, it was actually a Ute fan that came up with ALUF. However, BYU fans do seem to use it in a somewhat insulting way. I think I’ve seen somebody with the username “ALUF” post here recently. Maybe that person invented it? Maybe not.

[D T]

What you’re not mentioning is CU was playing against a significantly stronger SOS than the zoobs during those preceding 5 years.

[AZUTE]

Go read Cougarboard right now and you’d have no idea byu has a game in two weeks.

It’s nothing but Utah hate. No mention of USF anywhere.

Clearly more Utah haters than byu fans.

[Author]

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