Wow Just Wow

[Waybackutefan]

If this is true I’m stunned, the incompetence of the league Presidents is amazing.

Dollar figure finally emerges on ‘significant’ ESPN deal Pac-12 rejected

[Tony (admin)]

The presidents asked for $50 million? WTF?

[Utegator]

I believe I heard this number while listening to The Drive last week. I personally thing 30 mil plus the pac 12 network is a low ball offer. I’m pretty sure the Apple TV deal was better than that. I think all the schools that left are making more than 30 million. Maybe by countering with 50 they’d hope ESPN came back with 40 or something?

[PhiladelphiaUte]

I can understand aiming high to move a low-ball number upwards, but who starts at a +67% hike over their first offer?

[DrJazzy]

Apple tv deal was 23 per. Had potential to go up much higher based on subscribers – but let’s be real, barely anyone subscribed to P12 network (another big reason why the Pac died) so don’t see them hitting those numbers.

[Yergensen]

“How so many smart people can make such stupid decisions”

[Roy Rangum]

It gets worse when you consider the report that initially after the LA schools left and before the Big12 signed it’s GOR, both TCU and Houston were close to joining the PAC until the pac12 leadership nixed it.

If all these reports are true, it means the arrogance of PAC leadership is what destroyed the conference, and the conference has no one to blame but themselves.

TCU and Houston almost to the PAC12

[EagleMountainUte]

It doesn’t seem like Arrogance. More like contrivance.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

It wasn’t the Pac-12 leadership who’d mixed the idea of adding TCU and Houston. For starters, it wasn’t just those two schools. Tx Tech, Bylr, and Okla St were also being considered. Some Pac-12 presidents/chancellors were in favor, while others were indifferent one way out the other. What prevented the expansion with Big 12 teams was USC, and USC alone. They’d outright vetoed adding anyone, ab’s had done so while they were furtively negotiating their exit to the BigTen.

It was USC who’d screwed us.

[Roy Rangum]

Totally agree that it was USC that screwed us by initially blocking picking up Big12 schools after Oklahoma / Texas announced going to the SEC, but my understanding was this was a different later discussion that occurred after USC and UCLA announced they were leaving the PAC12.

If the conference let USC make meaningful decisions after they had announced they were out, that’s an even worse look for the conference. But regardless, the PAC had multiple opportunities to secure its future, but ignored every life raft that was sent it’s way.

[DrJazzy]

From what I read, USC had a lot to do with that. They had one foot out the door and didn’t seem too keen on helping Pac out on way out. Not sure about Hou since they weren’t member of B12 at the time, but multiple B12 teams asked about membership after TX/OK announced their departure. Pac had the chance for the first kill shot – once again due to bad leadership all around (Presidents, GK), they didn’t take it. Thanks USC.

[Central Coast Ute]

UH was the top choice due to market size + research school. Doesn’t have to be B12

[Central Coast Ute]

I have no doubt that had they taken that deal, they would have been criticized for not holding out for more.

[RedRocks]

This. Had the Pac-12 accepted the offer, the very same people complaining that they didn’t accept the offer would be complaining that they accepted the offer.

Make no mistake, many errors were made that led to the demise of the Pac-12.

[Roy Rangum]

The big difference is in one scenario the pac-12 still exists, and in the other the pac-12 is gone.

While hindsight is 20/20, this was clearly a strategic error, and Canzano’s recent article demonstrates multiple times over that ultimately it was failed leadership that killed the conference, and the common thread in that failed leadership is a persistent inflated sense of self worth that in the end was unjustified.

canzano on the fall of the PAC

[RedRocks]

Well, yeah. Saying “this was clearly a strategic error” is 100% benefiting from hindsight. Had they accepted the offer, we would not be saying that the Pac-12 would be dead otherwise.

I am not disagreeing that it was an error (in hindsight). The Pac-12’s university and conference leaders made many mistakes. The TV deal was just one.

[DrJazzy]

Maybe. But you have to read the room/media landscape too. It’s unclear to me if this deal was before or after B12 signed their deal.

B12, with their brilliant commish/leadership jumped the line and got paid first. They too were criticized for not waiting longer, waiting to see what the Pac got, going to open market, etc. They basically renewed early. And it was a brilliant move. Their commish read the room right – there was finite network money any by getting it first, there wasn’t any meaningful amount left for the Pac. Hence the shift in focus to streaming.

Streaming may work for the SEC/B10, even B12, because they have passionate fans that will watch sports wherever. It was clear P12 could not support their own network.

Basically, B12 worked P12 over like prime Mayweather vs insert whoever.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

I think you might be giving Yormark more credit than he’s due. He did jump the line to secure the Big 12’s future, but I believe he’d done so because he knew that TT, TCU, BU, OSU, and UH had all applied to join the Pac-12, and he wanted to lock them into the Big 12 so they couldn’t leave. And with USC vetoing those Big 12 teams’ candidacy, it provided Yormark with just the right window to lock them in before the Pac-12 circled back to bring them back into consideration. Yormark left money on the table in order to get a quick contract signed. And in the end, that’s ultimately what saved the Big 12. Had he not done so, I have no doubt that the Pac-12 would have added TT, TCU, BU, and OSU, and secured a media deal in the range of $35-40M per team, and the Big 12 would have raided the AAC and MWC to stay afloat — as the best “midmajor” conference in the country.

[DrJazzy]

I mean, yes, lol that was my point. BY is why the B12 is alive and thriving as the 3rd biggest conference in terms of media rights deal right now and why the Pac is dead.

The point is he was playing chess, GK was playing checkers. No forward thinking on GK/Pac12’s part.

Also, look at the things BY is trying to do – increase basketball value, pushing premier basketball conference narrative, trying to schedule games in Mecico, etc etc. Obviously it won’t all work, but at least it is thinking outside the box.

I don’t know how you can look at it and thinking anything but BY >>>> GK. Objectively, one conference is thriving and the other is dead.

[Central Coast Ute]

4th biggest*.

[DrJazzy]

Who’s bigger? B12 media deal is better than ACC’s.

[prestitute]

Yep, and it is a huge credit to BY that he did read the room that well. Once the bigger tech companies that were in contention started to tighten the belts in other areas, it was pretty clear to those paying attention that the deals wouldn’t be huge. When Amazon, Meta, etc. started cutting jobs aggressively, it was pretty clear that the exuberance we had seen was ending. ESPN has been showing so many signs of tightening the belt sooner, too. BY saw that he had to encourage his membership to stay, and he gambled (with a fair amount of available information) that the economic conditions around sports were about to start trending down. If he had been wrong, the P12 would have done better, but he was right, and GK just looked so unprepared. Part of that was the presidents put GK in a terrible position, but part was just a total misread of the market.

[DrJazzy]

Expansion is another great example. BY QUICKLY made moves and got the best 4 non-P5 teams. We all hate BYU but they are a national brand with a larger than us fanbase. UCF had a ton of BCS success, and a large student body. UC just played in the CFP. And Houston is a huge market.

Granted, not really any schools left on par with those schools to expand with for GK – but look at how that dragged out and dragged on with no plans/answers.

BY was forward thinking to put in expansion clauses for FUTURE expansion. If this clause wasn’t in there, Colorado, UofA, Utah, Az St are still in the Pac.

Many more examples.

It was a blood bath.

[prestitute]

Agreed on most cases, but I will say on the BYU fan side, I really don’t think they have as big of a fanbase as they think, especially if you factor in fan engagement. BYU definitely DID, but from the independence debacle onward, they have been in a huge decline. As people leave the LDS church and as they have spent so long in the wilderness, BYU’s sporting base is shrinking. Even still strong card carrying members of the faith seem to care less about BYU football in the coming generations (genZ in general seems to care less overall, so this makes sense). The best LDS athletes no longer seem to care too much about going to BYU. They will probably get more competitive, especially with us in the B12, but they aren’t going out and getting the best of the best kids anymore. Maybe with Stanford taking such a hit, it will help them, but frankly, the best LDS kids tend to want to play for the better schools (sport and academic-wise) and the honor code is a huge turn off to them as well.
If they don’t come in and compete fast in the B12, I think they will see further drop off in relevance, and they don’t have the roster to compete in a P5 (4) conference consistently right now, imo. If the LDS church decides to dump a bunch of money into athletics again for NIL or encourages the members who still care to, then things could change, but I really don’t see that happening unless the church feels it can capitalize on the sports teams, and that has not really worked out recently.

[DrJazzy]

I mean, objectively they had enough support to survive as an Indy.

Let’s be straight, effing love Utes with all my heart – but Utah isn’t going to be able to make that work. Hell, Stanford probably can’t make that work. No shame in that.

My point is BYU made it work. And I do give their base some credit – def less fair-weather than our fans. Even when their football team sucks they show up. Ditto their basketball team.

I can hate BYU but still be somewhat objective about facts lol.

[DrJazzy]

Also, if we being real, I love this site (thanks Tony!). But it gets nowhere near the level of engagement of say a Cougarboard.

Even the Utah FB pages aren’t even close – and you have to sift thru so many unintelligent takes to find anything worthwhile.

The biggest perk of this board though is @onlyu!! Awesome insider.

[TX_UTE]

If true, this just hurts…

[fosternano]

Yep, at the end of the day the pac 12 leadership got what they deserved. Sucks that bad leadership ended the conference.

[Grayshirt]

I don’t know…

Did this 30 million dollar deal have total unanimity? I recall hearing certain NW schools not wanting equal distributions without the LA schools. Perhaps that’s another consideration that killed the deal. A detail that the article (conveniently) left out, because it’s fun to kick’em while they’re down. I don’t know, but it’s a thought running through my head.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

UW and UO “wanted” unequal revenue shares, but they knew they weren’t going to get it, because if the 4 corners schools didn’t get an equal share, they’d leave for the Big 12, and the Pac-12’s subsequent media deal — if it survived the losses of 4 more schools — would be worth less than what the Huskies and Ducks would have received under an equal revenue sharing model. And that’s to say nothing of the fact that once UW and UO went on record of wanting unequal shares (they were demanding $40M/yr), Stanford and Cal decided they were worth higher shares too. And you can’t have 7 of 10 teams receiving higher shares. The math doesn’t work out that way.

[Waybackutefan]

I dunno but like the old saying “One in the bush is better than one in the butt.

[UteFanatic]

I’m not convinced UW and UO would have signed a GOR at that point in time, even for $35-40M per school. They were still waiting on B1G to expand further. If this same deal would have been presented a few months ago, when B1G expansion was looking bleak, they might’ve signed it. But I doubt they would have agreed to this in 2022.

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