[krindor]

To clarify, I’ll say that most of the folks there are pretty solid good people, and I’ve received a lot of support from them as well. There’s just a relatively small portion that absolutely, unequivocally suck – but that’s something we should unfortunately well understand with the small portion of our fanbase that enjoys being toxic on Twitter.

I’d hate to judge any fanbase on their worst, especially since there’s realistically a lot of demographic overlap between BYU and Utah fans. Super thankful for all the support here and will definitely try to share more here (the preview and editor modes make it easier to share more detailed stuff there unfortunately), but also don’t want to be responsible for creating a bad impression of either fanbase with the other.

[krindor]

Thanks all, appreciate it. Not going to lie, I’m hurting a bit right now.

That’s always felt like home and been where I primarily post, with occasional excursions here or to the Utah 247 site.

Being completely rejected and shunned there with heavy-handed religious references (from a faith I share) for the fact that I also like Utah…well I imagine I won’t be as active there anymore. I hope I’m still welcome here. I appreciate the support

[krindor]

Here is a good way of looking at where we actually rank

It’s generally hard to measure a recruiting class – 247 has their rankings, but frankly put way too much emphasis on class size – especially in a transfer portal era where its not always helpful to fill more spots. And looking at average recruit rating is an improvement over that… but can unfairly penalize teams that recruit more players – there’s no way a 3 person class of 90,90,90 should be above a 4 person class of 91,91,91,86.

So the best/easiest way I’ve found to do this is to look at the recruit average for the top X players in the class. Which I have a visualization tool here that allows us to do that. This compares Utah’s 2025 class to every other Big 12 team’s class

(Note that this uses score above 85, just to zoom in to the actual relevant scores. If the average recruit for a P4 school drops below 85 with all the rating inflation that has happened…well that’s a huge problem)

And this tells me a few things about Utah’s current recruiting. Note that when you’re just looking at the smallest class sizes, Utah starts near the bottom. Our top recruits (who I’m very excited about) aren’t on par (ratings-wise) with the rest of the conference. And that’s REALLY hard to recover from since those recruits are averaged into EVERY calculation.

But you’ll also note that as the class gets larger, Utah keeps ascending those rankings. Which is a good indication that we got a LOT more very good players than most schools (even if we didn’t get the one or two elite headliners). By comparison, look how high Kansas St starts (Linkon Cure) … And then how they fail to maintain that and consistently drop down.

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the class, but also cognizant how much better it would look (by these metrics) if we’d managed to land a Jerome Myles, Iose Epenesa or Aaron Dunn

[krindor]

Next week Tuesday

[krindor]

I’ll take a look at the places I disagreed with you (even if slightly) and try to give a bit more info on my thought process

QB: Krindor gives slight edge to Utah, MDUte gives HUGE edge to Utah
I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up being a HUGE edge for Utah, definitely think it’s in play. This one has a lot of variability, and I’m trying not to read too much into spring reports which are always positive. The concern for me is that Dampier threw interceptions on 3.1% of his throws last year. And we all saw Wilson last year try to fit throws into holes that closed up more quickly with the increase in competition, so there’s a risk there. Even in the worst case, Dampier will be a huge positive with his electric rushing ability, so I could see anywhere from a medium BYU advantage to a huge Utah advantage. Which is why I took the midpoint and gave Utah a slight advantage.

RB: Krindor gives edge to BYU, MDUte gives edge to Utah
Honestly, don’t think we’re that far off here. My logic was that Parker and Martin are pretty similar, but Martin is more established at this level and that BYU has more productive/established depth. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Parker outperform Martin, largely due to the OL (as you mentioned), but I didn’t want to double count the OL advantage at that position group and again at RB.

TE: Krindor calls it a tie, MDUte gives advantage to Utah
Fact is that Carsen Ryan was the #1 TE for Utah last year, over Bentley, King, and Andrews. And for all the offseason hype about Bentley and Andrews, similar noise is coming out of BYU camp about Ryan. Reality is that Ryan’s “proven” production isn’t much, but our coaches felt that Ryan > Bentley, Ryan > King, Ryan > Andrews for last year. That doesn’t mean it’s the same order this year, and it doesn’t mean (Ryan + other BYU TE) > (Bentley + King + Andrews)… but for now I can’t put this to Utah when Ryan outperfomed all those guys in the same offense last year. I do agree that BYU doesn’t use the TE well in recent history, but that’s more a coaching issue than talent. Plus, I’m not sure how well we will use the TE in our new offense.

LB: Krindor calls it a slight advantage BYU, MDUte gives advantage Utah
Don’t disagree with anything you said about Utah’s LB. Looking healthy and nasty. But the idea that ” Kelley is their one proven dude at LB and I’m not sure who will be their next 2 after Kelley” ignores that both Kelly AND Isaiah Glasker were HM All-Big 12. And Harrison Taggart had some of the best PFF grades for BYU. As much as I love the Utah LB corps, it’s tough to argue with that when Utah didn’t get the same accolades. Like I said, this isn’t any sort of knock on Utah, so much as recognizing BYU’s strength here.

ST: Krindor gives advantage to BYU, MDUte gives advantage Utah
I’m really excited for Curtis and the ability to hit from absurd distance and put the kickoff out of the end zone. Utah shouldbe much better than last year. That said, there’s some noise that Curtis is still dialing in accuracy with the increased pace at the college level. And BYU’s Ferrin was the 1st Team All-Conference kicker last year. So it’s tough to immediately put Curtis over him. And then BYU also has some stellar kick returners.

Overall, I don’t think we’re too far off, I’m just less likely to give too much credence to spring reports, and probably more aware of what BYU has at certain spots

In any case, even with my analysis, it’s not clear that BYU is somehow better (except at WR), and Utah has advantage along both lines (unless BYU’s young EDGE players show out), so I’d argue anyone feeling BYU should be well ahead of Utah next year is giving too much credence to records from last season.

[krindor]

LB and D-Line have arguments, but I did end up calling each position group with a slight edge. Keep in mind that Jack Kelly and Isaiah Glasker (both BYU LBs) were HM All-Conference performers. LB is absolutely a position of strength for Utah….but it’s also really really good at BYU. And (reasonably enough) a lot of folks here don’t know BYU depth charts so well, so they assume LB must be an advantage for Utah > BYU, because it’s a strong position…. but those same posters often say they don’t even know who BYU’s other LBs are, when Glasker was really great last year.

Same story (albeit in reverse) on Defensive Line. It’s weak by historical standards for Utah, which makes it hard to see where it’s an advantage for Utah over BYU. But BYU also lost a LOT there and until/if their young players take the next step, I have to give a slight edge for Utah. I will say though, that the Defensive Line is where BYU probably has the most potential to quickly improve.

[krindor]

I didn’t forget Bentley and he’s part of why I said Utah has better depth and more options. But he has three catches in two years, so I can’t put too much stock in him yet.

I want to and I really do believe he’ll make a big step…but if I’m assessing based on what’s been shown, I can’t put too much weight on him yet. For right now, King is the most established TE

[krindor]

DE: Slight edge to Utah
Utah has historically had a very strong DE rotation, but has more questions than normal this year. Fano looks to be a stud, but the spot opposite him and the depth is uncertain. I’d like to see Kash Dillon lock it up, but it’s a battle between him, Fitzgerald, Holtzclaw and Jones.

Meanwhile BYU has Logan Lutui as the only returning quasi-starter (and even that is arguable since Batty and Bagnah were the two main guys), but a whole mess of high-upside potential that hasn’t done anything yet. Tausili Akana (weight struggles that are reportedly being solved), Ephraim Asiata (ongoing weight struggles), Hunter Clegg (inexperience and mission rust), Viliami Po’uha, Kini Fonohema give BYU upside at EDGE that hasn’t existed in a long time. And I haven’t even mentioned Schoonover. He and Lutui have the most experience, but the advanced metrics for those two have been pretty weak so far. Fano vs those guys is enough to be a moderate edge for Utah, but the sheer number of upside youngsters for BYU brings it down to a slight edge for Utah and, if enough of them pop or excel enough, could even flip it to a BYU advantage.

DT: Push
This is another interesting spot, with BYU building around a Utah transfer. And make no mistake, Keanu Tanuvasa can be REALLY good. After all, he started last year for Utah over everyone that is coming back (though he was generally DT2 behind Tafuna). But Tanuvasa was also injured a lot and Dallas Vakalahi replaced him without any drop-off. If you argue Vakalahi = Tanuvasa (defensible, if a bit exaggerated i n my mind), then Vimahi and others at Utah are enough to give Utah the edge. But if Tanuvasa is healthy and the best DT on either team, then it’s closer to a tie or BYU advantage. Overall, I’ll split the difference and call it a push.

LB: Slight advantage to BYU
This is going to be one of my more controversial takes, because Utah has a very good LB group.

Lander Barton finally seems recovered and was playing like an early round draft pick to end last season. Jonathon Hall came over from safety and immediately impressed and Damuni is back for one more year. It’s a REALLY good group

And yet, BYU’s may be just as good or even better with Jack Kelly, Isaiah Glasker, and Harrison Taggart. The biggest difference is that if injuries hit, BYU has just a bit more high end depth with Siale Esera and Ace Kaufusi already having shown what they can do. Utah relies a bit more on true freshman like Cyrus Polu and Christian Thatcher (both highly touted, but still true freshman). It’s a nitpick since both programs have absolutely fantastic LBs, but this one goes slightly to BYU.

Cornerbacks: Slight advantage to Utah
BYU lost both their starting CBs from last year in Jakob Robinson and Marque Collins. Evan Johnson played on the boundary a LOT when Robinson went into the slot and did well, so it’s not a complete rebuild, but I’m more nervous than most about Bamba being picked on. BYU is also counting on Kabeya picking up the slot role. BYU has a great corners coach and deserves the benefit of the doubt, but there’s definitely some questions marks this year. There’s a reason the fanbase so openly courted Snowden to enter the portal.

Interestingly, the same (great coach, benefit of the doubt, some questions) is true for Utah. Snowden is (as mentioned) a stud and Scooby Davis played a lot (and fairly well) last year, but Utah is relying on someone else to step up at the 3rd spot. If Utah had kept Calhoun, they’d be incredibly set – but now need to hope one of Saunders, Cotton or another CB step up. That said, there’s slightly fewer questions and more proven production for Utah so they get the edge for now. My guess is that both schools do well at this position though, just because of the history of the associated coaches.

S: Advantage to Utah
BYU has a lot of good young talent at Safety, none of which really shined above the rest last year. Damuni and Satuala have the most pedigree, and Jay Hill loves Prassas, but most of the starts and snaps last year went to two former walk-ons in Tanner Wall and Crew Wakley. Wakley is gone now and the others have more upside, but until we see it, potential is just code for “haven’t done anything yet”.

Meanwhile Utah has some truly excellent safeties with both Tao Johnson and Rabbit Evans returning, Nate Ritchie (who started as a freshman) still around as a backup, Nate Tilmon impressing as a true freshman and Jackson Benee somehow the big story of spring camp. BYU certainlhy isn’t bad at this spot, but it’s a real strength for Utah.

K/P/returners: Advantage to BYU
Utah and Utah fans are justifiably excited about Dillon Curtis and his massive leg…but it sounds like there’s a bit of work to do regarding accuracy. And BYU’s Will Ferrin is simply a top kicker, finishing first team all-Big 12 last year. So that’s a small BYU advantage for now.

At punter, both schools seem fine, not incredible, but BYU also has some exceptional return talent. Pair that with the consistency of their kicker and they seem to have the moderate advantage on ST for now at least.

[krindor]

It would absolutely not be a surprise if Dampier is a major advantage. At all. Like I said, he has electric upside and has some sources ranking him as one of the top returning QBs in all of college football. But I think it’s also fair to be wary about drinking the Kool-Aid too hard, too early. He was playing at a lower level and still has to improve the passing part of his game – he had as many interceptions as passing TDs last year

There’s just SO much variability there, and while I can’t fault anyone for buying in completely, I’m trying to remain as unbiased as possible. I ended up giving it a slight edge to Utah, but realistically anything between a big edge to Utah or a slight/moderate edge to BYU could be in play. Whatever the case, Dampier will at least bring strong value as a runner

[krindor]

As someone who follows both teams, here’s my thoughts – starting with the offense

QB: Slight Utah Lean…but with extremely High Variance
BYU had a great season last year, but a lot of it was despite Retzlaff instead of because of him. He definitely had moments where he rose to the occasion, but he also led the conference in interceptions and hurt the team a lot when he made big mistakes.

Dampier is clearly more electric and may be better than Retzlaff….if he’s everything he’s cracked up to be. CBS Sports ranks Dampier as a top 10 returning QB from last year. The caveat is the jump in competition, and it’s hard to put him above a proven commodity yet. The upside is certainly higher, but so is the downside until we see something. I’ll give the slight lean to Utah here, but no outcome would be too surprising and I really wouldn’t argue with almost any take here.

RB: BYU Advantage
Utah brings in Wayshawn Parker who was one of the best RB in the portal and had 735 yards with 5.4 ypc. He’s the clear #1 and guys behind him have either a proven track record or a high ceiling…but generally not both

BYU counters with LJ Martin who had 718 yards on 5.2 ypc…which puts him pretty close to Parker. Arguments between the two can be made either way – Martin did it against better competition, but Parker did it as a true freshman, whereas Martin was a sophomore (and had a correspondingly better line). Martin also has had quite a history of nagging injury. If it were just a Parker-Martin comparison, I’d give it a slight advantage to Martin for those reasons, but BYU also has more established quality backups in Moa and Haunga so they take this category with a bit more room to spare

WR: Major advantage BYU
This isn’t (or shouldn’t be) a surprise. BYU is fairly loaded at WR with lots of high-end and demonstrated performers. Chase Roberts is the headliner (and somehow still doesn’t get enough credit from the BYU fan base), but with Marion, Phillips, and Kingston, BYU also has multiple other guys who’ve shown they can play at this level. Add in a couple high end youngsters who BYU is really excited about (Hagen, McKenzie) and BYU’s biggest issue at WR is having enough targets to go around.

Utah has largely opted for quantity at the WR position, bringing in a LOT of options and trusting (hoping?) that a few of them will step up. There’s absolutely some exciting possibilities there and I know we all love Zacharyus Williams….but for now, the Utah WR room remains mostly projection.

TE: Push
On the one hand, this is clearly a BYU advantage since Carsen Ryan was the leading TE for Utah last year and is now on BYU. But Carsen Ryan has also never had as many receptions as even the 14 that Landen King got in 2023 (Ryan’s career high is 13). There’s a lot of justifiable excitement in BYU camp about Ryan and an expectation that he’ll take the next step…but if we’re looking at spring hype, then Utah also gets credit for the excitement around redshirt freshman Hunter Andrews or Dallin Bentley (who is also getting rave reviews in spring, despite only 3 receptions in 2 years so far). Carsen Ryan gets the slight edge over any one of Bentley, King, or Andrews…but Utah’s superior depth at the position is enough to push it to an effective tie. We’ll see where the spring hype is justified, but until Ryan and/or Bentley and/or Andrews live up to (or fail to live up to) the hopes, I’ll call this a push.

OL: Utah major advantage
Let’s start at the bookends. Utah has two tackles who are likely to be drafted (both possibly very early) with Fano and Lomu. BYU is replacing both starters. On the interior, Utah brings every player back and has several high end backups. BYU has more turn over.

That’s not to say that BYU’s cupboard is bare. Jatta played well in limited time as a RS last year, Gentry had time starting at Michigan pre-injury, Lapuaho looked very good last year, Mitchell was a solid injury replacement for Pay, and so on. But there’s some losses and some new pieces. That said, Utah getting the advantage here is less about BYU and more about what Utah has across the OL.

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